Just observing the changes

[Lost Rabbit]

Interesting manouvres Cas! Funny it was Xmas that started to rattle Mr Rabbit too, I know Mr Cas has done some Xmas's on his own but whilst still in the fog or LLL (la la land) as we call it on the alt!

I totally understand how you feel about moving forward slowly but keeping things calm and not spooking him, I ended up rereading my first thread after reading Seeking Answers kind comments on my Encouragement thread, the things that stood out were my impatience at keeping all those fine lines together without sending Mr Rabbit scuttling hell for leather back to his burrow, but at the same time keeping the home burrow appealing but not looking like a cake factory ..

One thing I'd say is keep your boundaries firm (totally agree with No Mrs OW) and make Mr Cas do the work.. He is obviously getting a bit brave (or stupid) mentioning his intentions infront of the kids, so I'd say he's pretty serious, but scare sh*tless and really knows he mucked up and is being careful, so use any time to validate forward movements if at all possible! Dont let the urge to get Xmas all perfectly sorted push this any faster than it would have gone if in the middle of summer!

Anyway scuse my waffling still no a 100% well so not always coherant (())

[goodattitudegirl]

Cas,

Checking in on you. I have been following your situation. It DOES get hard to maintain patience when they come in and out of the tunnel. I had been having a fair amount of fun recreation and emails with XH for about 6 weeks and since he went out of town (about 2 hours away) on combined work/vacay last saturday, only 1 text. LR's post is a VERY good reminder to us all!

Patience. Patience. UGHHHHHH!

GAG

[dolphin_05]

This morning I received a text from H asking if I needed a lift to the airport. I responded to say yes please but said I understood that he might not want to take us since I also had to pick up friend. He replied "No worries and gave a time he's pick us up." That was a surprise.

With this in mind I've just read Rabbit and GAG's messages and I can see that this is going to continue to be a long journey and that I must focus on the positives along the way and be patient. I think I will keep myself a list of the positives so that I can see that there is progress. Thanks for the advice about Christmas, Rabbit. I'm not sure there is a perfect outcome anyway. I am going to let it go for now...it only came up cos of S's call. Hopefully, there will be a suitable solution between now and December. Interesting, however, was that he was going to fit in around me. I know ow's family usually has lunch. interesting!!

[Sanderika]

Hi Cas,

Some info on my sitch that will help you....

Things between me and H were going very well after we dismissed D, so well that I felt comfortable again (H appeared to be the same, appeared is the key word here).

He was texting or calling everyday. Conversations lasting upwards of 2 hours. Some of our texting was very provocative and sexy. Very good!

He was asking about me and genuinely caring and concerned about my day and life or son's.
Very good!

He came to my rescue with help at home and with my truck, numerous times. Very good!

He came for supper when I invited, I kept invites minimal. However, he had not got to the point to ask me out for supper. Once in a while he would call me and invite himself over. I always said yes and would even go out of my way to make sure there was more for him (when the original plan was just for me and son). Again, very good!

The problems seem to come back because I became too comfortable...I literally began to pursue him. I recognized it and still thought it would be ok.....Nope!! It wasn't ok, he wasn't really ready. In fact it scared the h*ll out of him!!

Here's what I did:

I began initiating more playful text and invites or calling him about more random trivial topics. It went pretty good for a while and then I started to notice a gradual decline in responses from H.

In a conversation in early July, after he began to pull back, I initiated a R convo. At one point in the conversation I mentioned to him that I didn't feel things were going all that well with us. I didn't think he loved me the way a man should love his wife. I told him he was unable to get away from the OW. I told him that I was going to stop initiating any communication with him to give him some space to think out what he really wants. I have maintained that completely. He has run right back into the tunnel and is once again back with OW.

Two weeks after that H initiated a R convo. In that talk he told me "I never see myself coming back to you". We talked off an on all day overall about 4 hours.

Two weeks ago he came over to visit, then after a 2.5 hour conversation with me, which was fun and easy and comfortable he confessed that he had brought D papers back to me to sign that evening but said he couldn't because He didn't want a D. H admitted he is very unhappy and sad. Can't sleep, eat, work. Doesn't know what he wants still, knows that he has to do something. Before he left, he asked me anyway if I wanted to sign them I said "NO". H did admit that now that he is back with OW she is driving him hard once again to get a D.

I have not heard from H since...

My advice to you....take this super super slow. Let H take the lead. Let H become comfortable on his own time frame without any impatience/aggression on your part. Do not read more into
what is. Enjoy what you have with him today. IMO, it's better than what you had with him last year at this time so use me as an example of "what not to do".

The message is simple....we all have said it many times here....Time and patience is the key. When the positives appear, do not get impatient and never pursue. We alone cannot determine if and when our H's are out of this crisis. He has to complete the journey all by himself. Let him lead the way and tell you.....

(((Cas))), I wish you well...I admit I have thought about you just about everyday...you might be one of the lucky ones here.

Your H needs gentle and tender touches....

Sanderika

[dolphin_05]

Sanderika, I am sorry for your pain. I thank you so much for sharing your story. I know this is not easy and you are strongly reflective which is the essence of you and your integrity. Thanks for your candid honesty. I am trying hard to read and absorb the lessons from others.

I am impatient but at least I recognise this trait in me and I am trying hard to pull myself back when I feel the urge to speed up the process. Compared to a year ago, things are much better........he has been moving slowly, slowly towards me since June. I try not to initiate. I never call him but I do email or text but 99% of the time it is about our children.

I did originally initiate the weekly dinners and the walk last weekend. If I ask him for something I try to give him an out clause as well.

However, I hear what you are saying Sanderika and I am grateful for your advice. Please feel free to pull me up if you notice me pursuing cos it's very tempting at times.

Many, many thanks

Cas

[Lost Rabbit]

So sorry to hear your news Sanderika, I find even now that H has been back six months odd when things go a bit flat, I have to go back to my DB'ing to add a bit of zing to the comfort factor, actually IMHO I think you need a bit of both..

Just wish I could muster up some zing atm still full of sinusitus unfortunately..

Cas just keep taking it slow and steady, always give him options, call it what you may a get clause or just let him know he just has a choice.. Certainly in my case I do think that my H felt he had a lack of choice, he fell in with the pack (family) and is naturally a very indecisive person, infact due to me being poorly I misjudged how long dinner would take to cook so H said not to worry we'd have a take-out.. I got a little cross when after he asked us all what we wanted and we said curry and he said not really my choice but I'll have what you lot want.. How about saying I would prefer not to have curry what other suggestions do you guys have! I actually stand up for him making sure he has a choice now, so if see him pondering I polite remind him he gave up a marriage for choice once and he will only go back where he was again unhappy if he doesnt honour his need to choose..

Sorry if thats all longwinded as I said sinusitus still very present lol! (()) to you both!

[Sanderika]

Hi Cas and Rabbit,

Another update.....

H asked me on Friday if I would meet him to discuss our issues. I said "yes, where and when"? He replied "anytime I have all afternoon".
That was around 1:00, I finished working at 4:30 had banking to do then sent H a txt: "I am finished at the bank I can meet you at the shop" (our jointly owned business), to which he replied "OK". This was interesting to me because "the shop" is generally taboo to me. I do not freely go there. H does not freely have me there. That has become OW territory. I arrived at 5:04, the new secretary was there and he introduced us, once again a bit wierd since he has kept it quite guarded as to the reason he has a new secretary. (I know the whole story, it's ugly, the OW drove the old secretary away)

Anyways....H was relaxed, asked How I was, secretary was there for another half hour so we chatted about business and he took a phone call. I tried to appear relaxed even though my heart was racing out of control and I felt ill. OH, he picked a day I was dressed to the nines anyway so that was good for me !!

Onward....H and I chatted about trivia for 2 1/4 hours. He gave me a tour of the building showing me some newly acquired things. Back in his office he mentioned the reason for the visit. I asked him what he wanted. His mantra hasn't changed, he still doesn't know.

I told him that the reason we separated in the first place was because I had become mean and selfish and failed to recognize the destruction I was causing and refused to listen to him, family and friends that I was in a bad downward spiral. When I woke up to facts he was already gone and I then scrambled to recover what I loved and lost. I have spent the last 5 years standing for our marriage because I love him and believe in "us"and want more than anything to have my family back together again. I told him we are good people and have so much to lose if we follow through with a D.

He admitted that If I had not gone through such a prolonged depression that he would not have left and we would still be together today.

He went on to say that he sees three choices before him:

TAKE THE EASY PATH (which is to return to the marriage and work it out and be content with that choice, which he added I could easily do that. He also said that at 47 yrs old he would have everything he wants: a wife, son, dog, home, business, success, wealth in tact. He said who wouldn't want that, it's the American dream, I don't want to be single at 47 years old.)

TAKE THE HARD PATH (which is to end the marriage in divorce to which he added will place him in a great deal of debt. He will be single and have to start all over. He assumed that he will lose everything at that point, only have his son occasionally and hopefully business. He said he is homeless and at 47 does not want to be homeless. He said he has lived at the garage and in his truck for 5 years, he doesn't like it anymore. He said D is not what he has wanted and has fought hard himself against it, however he said this is the path I usually take in other situations.)

WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE (which he added is where he is stumped, he does not know what needs to be done. He is afraid to make the wrong choice, he wishes there was a way to know for sure, He added that he does not ask the advice of others. He said if he could figure this out this is what he wold do regardless.)

My reply was that his choice is all about me and where he sees me. I said after hearing him I felt that he would take the easy path, if I were not on it. I said he will probably take the hard path, because of me. I said that I think he knows "what needs to be done." I told him that I was so sorry for the destruction and pain I caused and that I feel he has not been able to forgive me for that. I told him what I did was not heinous or adulterous and that I had recovered from my mental state at that time and that things all around me were good again and that I deserved to be forgiven. I told him that I know we could all be very happy together and that it will be a very sad thing for all of us if he chooses to divorce us.

For the most part H was nervous during the visit, kept looking at the clock, I brought up the OW and asked if she was on her way. He replied she shows up at anytime always unannounced. Mentioned to me I should go. I kind of lost it here a bit. I told him she was confrontational. I told him that I was his wife and that I should be the one who stays in my own building. He should call her and tell her he doesn't want her there and that she can't come there. He agreed she was very confrontational about everything he also adnitted that she fights with him constantly generally every 2-3 weeks and then goes through a nonspeaking to him spell. She is very immature.

I think H is going to take the Hard Path and the Path That Needs To Be Done in his opinion = Divorce.

Anyway ladies, I have ranted long enough...I left quietly after that. Simply said "I am leaving, see you later."

1/2 hour later he called son to go to work with him yesterday, Son said yes. I think my son wants a relationship with him. For about 5 months now, son goes with him when invited.

H brought son back at about 4:30 yesterday and I was dressed in a denim skirt with a navy blue tank top and silver jewelry, strappy sandals. I don't think I got one look from H. I felt the air was thick with tension between us. It was obviously uncomfortable. Son said he noticed and thought to himself "she is really trying to look pretty for dad." He thought I overdid it and it was obvious and I shouldn't have. He also noticed the tension. H stayed for about an hour. Thanked son for his help and told me I'll see you later.

I fell apart after he left.....

Thank you both for listening....I don't want my own thread back right now, thanks Cas for letting me vent here.

I'm so sad, (((hugs to you Cas and Rabbit)))

Sanderika

[Lost Rabbit]

Sanderika hugest hugs that must have been so hard for you to hear! If Im honest he has snuck back up that tunnel again.. also the fact that OW seems to strike fear and trembling into him shows he really isnt his own man still!

From personal experience even if they come home they still are in some form of MLC, my H seems to be not dealing with his depression at the moment to the point I cant read his FB as I just want to post "get a grip and give yourself a boot up the derrier" I wish I could just GAL butam still getting well not up for escaping!

Its good that your H is seeing your S a bit more, dad and son bonds are important if a bit tempestuous at times!

Hang on in there hun, if you dont feel like having your own thread feel free to lurk on my latest one, Im gonna call it "day by day" will give you some support but not so out there as having your own! (())

Cas hope youre having a good weekend hun what ever you are up too!

[Sanderika]

Thank you Rabbit,

I appreciate your support. I agree with you. I don't understand it at all...he knows what her true colors are and he stays...

Thanks for the offer to use your thread as well. The powers that be here shut down my last one saying that it was too long with only 24 pages or so and I see others here with threads going 50+ and still strong, it kind of made me mad as well.

I am trying to hang in here, it was a very rough weekend for me.

My son starts High School today, I am sad and glad all at the
same time. Wishing H were here to share....

Hope that sinusitis is going away, you've had a rough time with it.

(((((Rabbit))))) Thank You So Much!!!

Hi (((((Cas))))), I too hope your weekend was a good one!!

Sanderika

[Lost Rabbit]

Big day Sanerika son and heir off to high school, sad that H isnt going to enjoy it but its his loss and Im sure you made it a totally memorable day for S anyway!

Mines S is a all grown up twenty two now although unfortunately the teenage boy is still lurking within, this will make you smile, he's left handed and we bought a new bread knife, he got angry with it and said it was useless, I could see he was trying to cut the bread where there was an air hole so it was just collapsing under the knife pressure, offered to show him and he got all grumpy about hes a grown up etc so I DB's him and left it, a few minutes later he turned round and said "Im a grown man you know you wouldnt want me showing you how to do the washing up would you" and in that instant he realised he'd just volanteered himself for a chores he's pretty good at avoiding lol!

See this boys they never grow up do they?

Hope both you ladies are well?

(())