Stitching together a new quilt

[FindingMyVoice]

Make weekend plans for yourself, and if he wants to come, then fine.

So we have company this weekend, so have to stay in town. But next weekend I'm going to see Francis the Pig - love those 'giant' road attractions. And this is the prairies so there's tons of them. And I'm going to do some photography work for some new art too. You really lifted my spirits this week, Time. Thankyou. I know you've had a tough week, and hope still feel like doing your road trip...sometimes there's nothing like a long drive in the country to lift a heavy heart. Take care, PG.

[FindingMyVoice]

The problem isn't the activities , but the choices one or both of you are making about spending time together. What could you do that would influence him to spend recreational time with you more often?

Hmmm.. I've thought about this since you posted it and I can only think of one thing. I could stop being such a scaredy cat about trying new things with him. He has asked me in the past if I'd like to do this or that, but I usually resist - often it's stuff that just doesn't appeal to me. And that is where it gets confusing:

I get that a person sometimes needs to push themselves out of a comfort zone to try something new; That's healthy change, and I think we all need that sometimes...

BUT when does it become trying to change yourself to conform to someone else's idea of who you should be? I really get stuck there.

[goodattitudegirl]

Hi FMV,

I've been following your thread for awhile. I've been meaning to write to you for awhile for the reason described below (in my 2nd paragraph)....but when I saw your post above, I knew that I had to share with you a perspective on your question above, offered by Dr. David Schnarch in his books "Passionate Marriage" and "Intimacy and Desire". I downloaded "Passionate Marriage" on iTunes and have been listening to it during my commute recently. The section I listened to today (Part 4 on Disc 2) directly addresses the question you ask above. Schnarch says that M is a people-growing machine and that in order to develop true intimacy both partners need to stretch and grow. This applies both in and out of the bedroom. In the situation you describe above, Schnarch would say that you should find some way to participate in your H's favorite hobby and he should reciprocate.

I would like to ask you for your perspective on my situation. My XH tends to 'read minds' (thinks he knows what other people are thinking) and thinks that other people can 'read his mind'. He once told me during our M that when he was in counseling at the end of his 1st M, his propensity to 'read others' minds' was identified as an issue. He learned this growing up in an alcoholic household and I think it is difficult for him to see that he is doing this. Unfortunately, I didn't realize he was doing this to the degree that he was in our M until he walked away. He thought that I should have known how unhappy he was but since he didn't tell me in so many words that he was so unhappy he was thinking about leaving our M, I did not know. He also confided a lot in his BMF and as a result tended not to tell me his innermost thoughts and feelings.

I was very interested in reading your perspective on 'finding your own voice' and applaud you for having the courage to grow in your M AND to share this process with us here. I am wondering if you would take a look at my thread when you have a chance and give me your perspective? (www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2059127&page=1) He is in MLC but he began to reconnect about 10 weeks ago. Do you think that there are certain things that I need to watch for as we begin to reconnect?

Thanks!

GAG

[FindingMyVoice]

Schnarch says that M is a people-growing machine and that in order to develop true intimacy both partners need to stretch and grow. This applies both in and out of the bedroom. In the situation you describe above, Schnarch would say that you should find some way to participate in your H's favorite hobby and he should reciprocate.

Hi GAG, thanks again for your support! I appreciate the insights. Yes, I've listened to that same book and wholeheartedly agree with what he's saying there. I'm having some resistance applying to my sitch though. The reason is that for many years, I was the one who stuck my neck out to participate in H's hobbies and life. However, it was not reciprocated. Further, the more I adapted to his life and activities, the more he pushed me to adapt further, and the less he bothered to adapt and become part of mine. This led to a lot of resentment and mistrust in me. Even just writing that, I feel the old 'burn' in the pit of my stomach. I get now, why this situation came to be, and I forgive him the events and background that led him to be that way.

I can't however, just forget it. I'm still afraid of losing myself and being rejected, by stepping into his hobbies and life and finding out that he still might not reciprocate. So there's some work there that still needs to be done:
- to get me to have the courage to take the step to not only participate in his hobbies, but request he try mine too
- to retain the self-awareness to see what's happening if my request of having him join in my hobbies/life is not reciprocated (*This will be a big hurdle for me - this is where I'd typically get lost in the fog... 'oh we're having sooo much fun...we're getting so connected'... only to wake up weeks/months/years later realizing that suuure we're connecting... on HIS terms, in HIS life but my life is nowhere to be found anymore. That cold sweat of realizing that my life has become completely wrapped around his yet again) (See the fear there!? Makes my stomach knot up just thinking about it!)
- and finally, if the above works out, to use my fledgling self-esteem to assert and maintain a mutually respectful boundary about participating in one another's activities and interests.

So, I think it's all do-able. And I do agree with what you've said above and thank you for reminding me of it. I think though, that I've still got some work to do to get there. BUT at least today, I believe it can happen!

[FindingMyVoice]

Make weekend plans for yourself, and if he wants to come, then fine.

Well. Surprise surprise. Apparently my plans just aren't fun enough for him. Fine. I'm not going to argue with him any more and I'm certainly not going to ask him again. I learned that lesson a long time ago. I'll go alone. I should have known. What else is new.

I'm very hurt. But I don't know why I'm surprised. Or hurt. I should have known.

[FindingMyVoice]

After our last discussion, he came to me and said he'd come after all, "if I wanted him to". Pfft. Great. I know he's trying to make things better in his own way, but why does this make me feel so ... I can't even identify the feeling. Like now he feels sorry for me? I remember when I was still dating, a couple of guys had let me know they thought I was boring. I think the term used once was 'a stick in the mud'. I don't know if I am. I think it's all relative. But I do know I'm tired of feeling like I have to defend that I'm not. When the interactions with people in my life seem to often make me feel like I am.

[Concerned_Listener]

FMV,
It does sound like courage, boundary-setting, expressiveness, and assertiveness are your skill areas to work on. I think you're right. If you don't improve in these areas, your M will go into the same old patterns--a M on his terms.

I recommend Boundaries in Marriage by Henry Cloud.

CL

[FindingMyVoice]

If you don't improve in these areas, your M will go into the same old patterns--a M on his terms.
I recommend Boundaries in Marriage by Henry Cloud.
CL

Hi CL, thanks for replying. I don't know, I'm beginning to wonder if it ever left that place. I think maybe I've been just fooling myself, thinking that he was coming around; seeing what I wanted to see. We're so different - we think differently, we do different things... That's what I'd told my IC in my first appt. And it just keeps coming back again and again. I told my H that I was going to go without him on my little road trip; but I'm starting to think maybe I should just stay away for a few days. Take some time to think.

I thank you so much for the book recommendation. I've looked into this book but I'm not a particularly religious person; don't know if it would be a good fit. But thank you anyways - I really appreciate your concern.

[TimeHeals]

I think the term used once was 'a stick in the mud'.

This bothers me a bit. Not that it happened in your past, but that you seem to feel there is enough validity to it in your life as a whole that you are compelled to defend yourself when the charge is made.

We can all appear to be "sticks in the mud" sometimes We can all appear to be "stuck" sometimes is another way of putting it.

But I do know I'm tired of feeling like I have to defend that I'm not.

Do what you want to do (within reason and using your principles and morals to define your limits and boundaries, of course).

I might or might not be full of crap (it's a common charge levied against me that I am, and sometimes I am-LOL), but I just don't think hindsight is working for you.

Oh, BTW, next time somebody says you are a stick in the mud, tell them (with a big smile), "My, aren't you just full of complimnets today".

An excercise in controlling your perpective:

1. Spend more time thinking about things (can even be little things) you can do to improve your quality of life. Start small with this if need be. Your fitness program is an excellent example of a place to start. Think about how you can improve it today maybe? You know you better than any of us, so ?

2. Take some time to enjoy things, and do things you enjoy.

3. When you find yourself thinking about the past (hopefully less than half as often as you think about the future and the good things you can accomplish), if you are thinking of something unpleasant, think of something positive in your past instead: something you accomplished, something you are proud of, the good things that have happened to you, etc.

If I am full of crap, this won't help

I am thinking it cannot hurt.

[Gardener]

FMV,

After our last discussion, he came to me and said he'd come after all, "if I wanted him to". Pfft. Great. I know he's trying to make things better in his own way,

He's either "trying to make things better in his own way," or jerking you around. Only you can decide which it is. And act on that.

but why does this make me feel so ... I can't even identify the feeling. Like now he feels sorry for me? I remember when I was still dating, a couple of guys had let me know they thought I was boring. I think the term used once was 'a stick in the mud'. I don't know if I am. I think it's all relative. But I do know I'm tired of feeling like I have to defend that I'm not. When the interactions with people in my life seem to often make me feel like I am.

FMV, you know by now that nobody can "make" you feel anything. You control that.
Some guys had negative perceptions of you while you were dating. I'll bet you had negative perceptions of some of them. That's what dating is: sizing up for "fit". But continually feeling like you have to defend who and what you are to the people in your life is something to tackle head on with your IC and...find your voice.
imho.

Peace,