Now boys, if you all dont stop your nonsense of going back and forth on this thread, you will have a 5 ft Brooklyn chick so far in your face you wont know what hit you.
steady posted this on Bear's thread in Infidelity ... I didn't want to lose it so I'm reposting it ...
******************* I totally agree with Puppy's take about being told to x, you are the best x'er here and it doesn't 'work'. I have looked at this so many times to understand the dynamics at play here.
As usual, I land on the mainstay of the philosophy of life I have had for almost 2 decades now. Everything is a variable and it's all outside of our control. Life flows of its own accord and you can't fight it. Fighting it is what causes suffering. Like the say, pain is inevitable but suffering is optional.
I find the greatest peace when I move with life and navigate as best I can inside the space it takes me. It is serendipitous in the way it works. One event is leading us to another. Something that looks terrible brings us to a place that is more beautiful than anything we have ever experienced. Hitting a long sought after goal proves to be empty and pointless. Missing our goal teaches us something that is extremely valuable to us later on in life.
Getting a bomb dropped on us in our M opens a doorway where we can now 'see' and have the opportunity to improve ourselves in epic proportions. In such a way we will never have to suffer the same R holocaust we co-created.
The Zen story I've referenced is a perfect example of it. Most people have a problem with it because it makes us see the ridiculousness of our constant analysis of where things will land in the future. The fact is no one knows.
One guy here stands up to his W with solid boundaries that are rigorously reinforced and she ends up coming back. Another guy does the same thing and it pushes his wife over the brink and she's absolutely done.
There are almost an infinite number of dynamics at play. I'll give you an example of my own sitch.
My W grew up in a house where she had a completely passive father and her mother was controlling, hyper-critical, fault finding, blaming others for her problems, my way or the highway thinking, I have no faults attitude (if only everyone would do it my way all would be perfect)
My W has inherited those traits from her mother. Of course, these only show themselves in intimate relationships - not in friendships.
Now, I stand up and snatch my personal power back. The more I stand up, the less attractive I become to my W. She unconsciously wants to build a R based on the role model she had growing up. She needs a passive guy so her dysfunction will show itself to give her an opportunity to overcome those issues - if she doesn't, she'll never be happy in an R. Period. She'll cntinue through the same cycle over and over until she changes those things about her which keep creating the repeating cycle.
Side note - This is why people who marry alcoholics keep having new R's with alcoholics. They have a caretaking role to play and their identity is attached to it. Until they pull out their dysfunctional crap they will continue to be attracted to the same 'type' of person. Ever look back and ask of your R history, "Why do I keep ending up with xxxxxxx kind of people?"
I understand this dynamic and I also see as long as she is stuck in her dysfunctional issues and I continue to grow into a MAN, we will be opposite poles of a magnet. Neither one of us will be attracted to each other. Healthy people aren't attracted to unhealthy people.
With this in mind, I do what I do because it is best for ME. I will not stop my growth in order to obtain some effect of her coming back. That would be asinine.
So what do I do? I keep creating a better life for myself; I keep finding more ways to remove the dysfunction I carried into my R - and if you look as I have, this is a repeating pattern for all of us; specifics change, but the overall pattern will be underneath them.
I keep on becoming a strong capable independent person who now is learning to draw healthy boundaries, overcome my fears, and resolving issues which interfere with me having an excellent and healthy life.
You can't act on what you think the effects will be. There is NO WAY to possibly know.
So what are we supposed to do?
What everyone here keeps saying. It's so simple we overlook it so often, defaulting back to human nature which wants to know the future, wants to calculate how our actions/words will play out as life unfolds. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE.
We look at ourselves and when we are faced with a decision we have to choose based on what is best for us as a person/human being/parent/friend/family member. You make it with the arsenal of tools you currently have. Hopefully those tools will improve as time passes. Ever wish you had the tools you have today 5 years ago in your relationship? If you make choices from this perspective, how can you make a wrong choice? Every choice is based from the same point - you.
Even if it is a 'wrong' choice (which ultimately I don't believe exists) it can't possibly be wrong. You had no outcome in mind except your own health. If your health declines because of your choice then you make a different choice. They always have the same reference point - you.
When you improve yourself and your life things will happen -
1. The improvements you make will conflict even more with your S's dysfunction and the relationship will terminate.
2. The improvements you make will cause your spouse to become attracted to you and there might be a chance at reconciliation-only if both people are willing to address their issues and improve themselves.
Both people in the R created the dysfunctional R we all found ourselves in when the bomb was dropped. If BOTH people don't work through their individual issues how can the M work?
When you get healthy and start setting and enforcing boundaries, the partners who are naturally attracted to a strong person will be attracted to this. The partners who are attracted to a weaker person who can be dominated and controlled will not be attracted to this.
I believe my W is NOT attracted to a healthy male who can draw and enforce solid and healthy boundaries. I have watched her reaction as I do it. Yes, I get more respect, but I do not believe it increases her attraction for me.
When I call her on her sh!t I know I'm hitting the most painful button she has. It repulses her. But I will hit that button every time she crosses the boundary whether it drives her further away or not. I will not tolerate that kind of treatment from her or anyone else. Period. Regardless of the effect it has.
But then again, I could be wrong about everything. steady
********************
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
My W grew up in a house where she had a completely passive father and her mother was controlling, hyper-critical, fault finding, blaming others for her problems, my way or the highway thinking,
Childhood issues, controlling mother, hormones at work.
Those boundaries are neccessary to rebalance the marriage and life in general.
Originally Posted By: steady
I believe my W is NOT attracted to a healthy male who can draw and enforce solid and healthy boundaries. I have watched her reaction as I do it. Yes, I get more respect, but I do not believe it increases her attraction for me.
I would add, that is right now. Part of the cause of this crisis is this changing beliefs. The WA knows right from wrong. She married you, were you weak then? When the crisis ends, she needs that rock that person with the boundaries to pull her through the crisis. That is the job of the LBS. To be the stanchion, to lead the way. As the LBS goes through their stages the last are forgiveness, renewal and living again. To get to that last stage you must go through all the stages. Their are no shortcuts, no easy ways around. Only straight over the mountain.
