Not sure where to start, or end. WAW?

[john28]

W is coming by in the next few minutes to have the talk with S4. We got a book about "two different houses" and we're going to have that sit down with him.

This is going to be very tough.

We'll also probably talk about a schedule for the next few weeks or so with S4. I'm hoping she'll understand that at this time of hardship it is very important that we spend equal amounts of time with him until something else materializes. I'm hoping to avoid any R talk during that... just make it about our son. But everytime I bring up custody for equal time she gives me the "I'm his primary caregiver, you were never around, never cared... yada yada" speech. I think what I will say is:

"Are we moving forward or backward? The past doesn't matter right now - we both know we're good parents. I am moving forward with or without you, but I've started a life that I'm proud of."


I've thought about this really hard, and I'm going to tell W that I've signed us up for Retrouvialle. And she can come with me or not, and if she does come she is welcome to leave anytime she wants to. That is in 3 weekends from now. I am hoping that if she will accept we can make a plan until then for seeing our Son... and not go to mediation until after that weekend if she still wants to.

[Lotus]

a. How does she know what you cared about? You are the expert on you. She can be the expert on herself. You are an equal parent and you will make time.

b. Retrouvaille does not take couples that just sign up. They will call and insist on speaking to both of you. They will ask each of you if you are involved with another person. They will ask each of you if you will go with an open mind and a willing heart. You have to get her to agree to go, you can't just register.

[john28]

Night went pretty well.

She was wearing her ring.

I didn't get everything that I wanted and she didn't get everything she wanted. We agreed to (not easily):

1. 50/50 schedule for the next two weeks.
2. We will go to mediation within the next two weeks
3. She agreed to go to Retrouvaille with me.

The night went reasonably well. She got really emotional a few times saying the same lines that I predicted - 'you don't deserve 50% of his time, you weren't a good dad, you were never around'. I almost called that verbatim.

I'm seeing now that it is easy to predict how a WAW will react to almost every situation. It's like being on the other team and having their playbook. You know all the stops and gaps. The WAW has your playbook too, or so she thinks, because you've 'never changed' and she thinks she can predict your reactions to everything, and by doing so she knows what plays to play on the 1 yard line to win. What she doesn't know is you have the new and improved DB playbook. If you can just get your team together, teach them the plays and strategies, and get them working together out of the new and improved playbook, you'll have a shot at winning. But, if you play with the old one, you're likely to not block that gap while she trots into the endzone. When you team runs on the field, they don't need to be running out of a Cheeseless Tunnel.

No ma'am. I'm a different person now. I won't react to your crying and emotional outbursts with trying to calm you down and comfort you. I'm going to let you have those because frankly, you need them to feel this rip in fabric of a M.



She asked if she could have a hug about 5 times tonight, not because she was sad, but because something good happened (son playing, laughing jokes). She also initiated ILY and kisses as well, on the lips. This is where I'm confused because I read so many threads about S that move out, and it's OK to reciprocate affection if you are pursued. I thought that if she is pursuing affection that it would be wise to reciprocate. In my situation, is that wronng? I don't feel it was a 'comfort hug' but a genuine affectionate love. I really need some advice on this.... if she approaches me for a hug what should I do at this point? Deny her that? I'm only asking because I am really confused. If I deny her a hug, how do I do that in a 'lovingly detached' way?

[john28]

Couple more things we agreed on tonight that benefit both of us really.

- We are holding true to our vows. This benefits me because it doesn't introduce OM into the picture again (both for M sake and S4).
- No broadcasting to all our friends that this is happening - i.e. - facebook or otherwise. That benefits me because of predatory OM's. That and, I think that if it is broadcast she'll get an earful from her 'friends' supporting this crap decision she has made.


I figure I can still GAL and have female friends if I want to, but it is within my Personal Integrity to stay faithful to my W. That's the man I want to be, regardless of what she has done to me.

[Lotus]

Very good work. Growing those nuts really made a difference. You did very well tonight.

As far as the reciprocation of affection, well, like everything else, you'll get different opinions on that. It is a personal decision. That is, it is your personal decision.

It sounds like you know your wife pretty well. You want to avoid statements such as "I love you no matter what". If love is unconditional, why should she act right? You want her to understand that you love her, but you demand certain things from her, such as not fooling around. And she CAN lose your love. Perhaps she has already lost your love. If she wants it, she has to earn it, because once lost, it is very hard to revive love. Love is serious, it is not just getting swept up on a cloud of emotion that carries you along. The only reason all those fairy tales end, "and they lived happily ever after", is because the real story would take all night and you want to get to the end and put your kid to sleep! There is no happily ever after! She won't have it with you or anyone else. Life is hard work.

I am very pleased that she agreed to Retrouvaille. They will speak to both of you before you go. Don't worry. They are very experienced in dealing with confused spouses. They will encourage her and make her feel safe.

Even if you live separated for the 3 weeks, that is fine. Maybe for the best. It gives both of you a chance to experience time alone. I hope she is not lying about dating others. Unfortunately, there's a lot of lying that goes on at this stage. There is nothing you can do about that, but keep your awareness up and your emotions in check. Try to keep things on a steady keel, business-like is good. You don't want her to see you as a mean person, but you are not her doormat. Conduct yourself with dignity. And most of all, no more scenes in front of your little boy!

[john28]

As far as the reciprocation of affection, well, like everything else, you'll get different opinions on that. It is a personal decision. That is, it is your personal decision.

I'd like someone else to chime in on this. What are the positives and negatives?


The night she left, I had one of my best friends come over. He just so happens to be the husband of my wife's best friend. The same friend she went and stayed with that night.

I was emotionally distraught that night. Complete mess. I knew that I needed someone there with me, and he came. We sat and talked, he let me vent and we drank some beers. At one point he said, "You know, this is just not all making sense. There has to be something else you're not telling me John. This just does not make sense. What else is going on? There has to be something."

My W had asked me not to tell him or her friend about the A or the abortion... that it would harm her friendship with her best friend.

Well, my friend kept saying that 'there must be something you're not telling me'. I broke. I told him. I asked him not to tell his wife. He said that he would not.

But, he also sat there and said, "John, this changes everything."

Last night when W came over she told me that her best friend called her and told her, "I don't have the whole story because my H won't tell me, but if what I think happened is true, then you have made a vile mistake in your M."

W was really really upset about that. Was angry at me for telling my friend what happened. Said that I disgraced her trust. She then proceeded (while crying) to tell me that she doesn't speak bad about the things that I have done to them. That she tries not to talk bad about me. I replied with "I appreciate that, but I've told them all the bad things that I've done. They know all about me."

Frankly, part of me is happy she got a dose of reality for what she did.




Last night a pseudo-friend of mine that is involved in the same fraternity as me that I have met several times and chatted with just msg'd me on fb out of nowhere. I had been thinking that we should hang a while. He asked how I was doing, I said I was doing alright, just alot of personal stuff going on. He suggested we meet up, so we'll be hanging on Friday night. It's awesome that I have a great setup of friends right now... even ones that I've never made time for before.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

"Wife, I decided that I was no longer willing to lie to cover up your affair. (Male friend) asked me a direct question and I told him the truth. You may want to try the same with your friend."

Puppy

[pinhead]

"Wife, I decided that I was no longer willing to lie to cover up your affair. (Male friend) asked me a direct question and I told him the truth. You may want to try the same with your friend."

Puppy

Perfect...

[john28]

I'm bumping again to get a plural answer to "Should I reciprocate affection if she initiates?"

I don't know what to do, or what are the pros/cons of that in my situation that you all have followed.

Especially since we are going to Retrouvaille in 3 weeks.

[Coach]

I don't know what to do

because

"Should I reciprocate affection if she initiates?"

It's how she is keepin you under wraps. You are dying for us tell you to go for it. it would be fine if you knew how to play it. you aren't there.

If you were thinking you might have some ideas on what would work.

Three weeks is a long time. Be wise. What's important is now.