My wife was from Thailand. But I did not put much thought into culture differences. Thailand is a bit more like the USA than China is to the USA. For her, it was money and partying. She even once told me that if I gained 2 million dollars through my work she would have sex with me every day.
I am in agreement with Truegritter. There is nothing you can do about DJ. Making theories about what he is up to is a waste of time.
Your efforts in trying to coerce your W's thinking are futile right now. She will need to come to some sort of awakening on her own (possibly after an A with DJ) to realize the path she is choosing is wrong.
Do all MLC spouses isolate themselves? My wife has been living in this small apartment for 6 months now. She's always been a quiet, 'stay-at-home' type of person. In general, there's nothing wrong with that I suppose. For the first 5 months after she moved out she spent a lot of time at our family home...I mean A LOT. However, since she returned from her trip to China she's gradually begun isolating herself more and more and, on weekends, never leaves the apartment except to buy groceries, drop off our children, etc... For the last few weeks she typically will not accept any invites to eat meals together (whether by me or even when my son asks). Our son made the remark just yesterday that, "Mom just makes up stories not to do stuff with us these days. How come she says the same excuse? Mom always says the same thing, 'Is there any reason to do that?' Why does she do that Dad?" She sleeps excessively [during the daytime] on weekends. She can easily take a 3-hour afternoon nap on Saturday afternoon, stay up until who knows when, sleep in until 9:30-10am on Sunday morning, then take another nap Sunday afternoon. I know this because she tells me (and no, not because I ask). I think I've mentioned it here before, but isn't excessive sleep a sign/symptom of depression?
In any case, the isolation over the last few weeks, on top of the excessive sleep, has me worried. On the surface she will try her best in front of me to act 'normal', whatever that means to an MLC spouse. But I can see right through her. My eyes could be deceiving me but, to me, she appears haggard on most days, a lot of times looks like she's aged a good 5-7 years, still has that distant look in her eyes, and the list goes on...
On the other, good side, since she returned from China she appears to be making a really, really strong effort to re-establish/maintain a strong, positive relationship with her parents AND my son. (I don't emphasize our daughter because she stays with my wife in the apartment, and that strong relationship is a given). Anyhow, it's something positive that really struck me since she came back from China. It's a strange dichotomy to observe the individual isolation, on the one hand, and the overt/obvious attempts to bond in a positive way with her mom/dad/our son on the other hand. Does anyone here have any insight on what this could suggest in terms of where she's at in her crisis? I've read about the stages, but have absolutely no clue on how to put her recent behavior/actions in any kind of meaningful context.
On a second, positive - I know I'm reading into things too much - type of note, I just got back from a 10-day vacation to Hawaii with my kids. The first day there I called my wife so she could talk to the kids. As we were about to hang up she utters, to no one in particular, "I love you guys." Now, in terms of affection, I've been living like a lost, hungry puppy over the last year. So, to hear my wife even utter the word "love" in my presence, in the context of what's gone on the last year, nearly knocked me out of my chair when she said it. I didn't react one way or another when she said it, but it did make me think of the other [semi]positive change that I noticed since she came back form China.
Since she moved into the apartment, my wife has been very good about calling me every single night at 8pm sharp so that our daughter can say goodnight before she sleeps. For the first 5 months since she moved out it's been me saying, "Goodnight Lily, I love you." and my wife typically replying "Lily, say goodnight to your daddy." The last few weeks have been slightly different. Lately, it's been me saying "I love you Lily" and my wife replying, "Lily, say night-night daddy. I love you daddy."
Your W does sound depressed. Depression is present through out the crisis.
Has she been to see a doctor? ADs will NOT end her crisis. They may, however, help her to cope and function in everyday life. She could probably do with a hormone eval. as well.
Her appearance sounds about right for a MLCer. The stress, depression and guilt take their toll and tend to age them.
Be glad of your W isolation. My H lives with the ow. I'd much rather he lived by himself if it's not with me. It is normal for them to isolate themselves. It's an external sign for an internal struggle.
Do yourself a huge favor. Stop trying to determine what her actions mean. You really have no clue and basically because the MLCer doesn't either. Detach and love her from a distance. Do not pressure her. You'll just lengthen her crisis.
If OM is still present even though he is in China, your wife is still in Replay.
She has to go through this by herself. You survive your own journey by getting out there and GALing and being the best possible Radio that you can be. Be that man who attracted her in the first place.
When your son questions things tell him his mom is going through some things that she has to work out. It's going to take a while and in the mean time I am here for whatever you need.
Time and patience Radio. Time is something the LBS has a lot of. Patience is what the LBS needs a lot of to survive the MLCer's crisis.
I believe her actions show that she is trying to reconnect with her family and children. This could be a signal that she is starting to end replay. It also could just be a moment of clarity and a touch and go. But either way she is showing movement in the tunnel. All is not as it may seem. And there is always a force working behind the scenes.
That is good.
Nothing that you do, radio, is going to change, but you must keep watching, and listening, staying detached with no expectations.
That does not mean that you must give up hope. Because hope spring eternal. We can always have hope.
Last edited by LanceSijan; 08/22/1010:42 AM. Reason: spelling
"When your son questions things tell him his mom is going through some things that she has to work out. It's going to take a while and in the mean time I am here for whatever you need."
Above, I mentioned the comment my son made on Saturday. Sunday evening my wife came over to pick up our daughter and take her back to the apartment. After they left our son went out to play with some neighborhood kids. About 15 minutes later he runs inside and tells me, "Dad, Sienna's mom just asked me where's mom and Lily. I lied and told her they went to the grocery store. I don't want her to know mom and Lily moved out." Then, he stares at me like he's looking for some sort of reassurance or agreement that the lie he told was 'okay.' I really didn't know what to say to him, and before I could think of anything, he asks, "What else was I supposed to say?!" The only thing I could think to say was that lying is never good, but that I understood why he said what he did. Really, it's not a 10-year old boys' responsibility to tell the neighbors, "Oh, my mom and sister don't live here..." That's an adult responsibility. So, on one level I felt a sense of guilt because I wasn't there to answer the question for him. On another level, I felt anger at my wife because she made the choice to move out, and our children should never have been burdened or made to pay for her self-centered actions. Deep inside I felt hatred towards DJ. Early this year, when I snooped, I discovered many e-mails from him encouraging/pressuring her to move out, sending the pics of his divorce papers to my wife, and so on... Crisis or not, part of me doesn't get at all how an otherwise extremely smart, educated woman (my wife) allowed herself to be so thoroughly manipulated by someone who lives literally 12,000+ miles away from us, and who she hadn't seen, spoken to, nothing...in 20+ years. That's something that's going to take me a very lonnnngggggggg time to digest.
Can someone help explain what kinds of things trigger the 'cycling'...in women?
My wife has been experience a pretty serious cycle of depression for last few days. When she came to pick up our daughter she was quite agitated. I've learned to identify when the other, younger personality comes out, and boy, was she in full force this evening. It's so surreal to ask what I'd consider a pretty benign question, and see this 'personality' get all defensive and angry, and spewing about "I've had enough of you...I just want to get away from you..." and repeats literally about 10-12 times, "I just want to say as clearly as possible to you that I will never, never come back to you or this family or this house!"
And, I'm standing there flabbergasted thinking to myself, "What just happened here? I just got back from Hawaii, haven't given this woman ANY trouble for quite awhile. What's come over her?" She was acting very, very immature and.....the word that comes to mind is 'bratty.' I know it sound rude to say it this way, but it kind of reminded me of how our 10-year old son acts when he's in one of his moods, and he's putting up a huge fit about having to go to bed and put his toys away. Soooo, what causes MLC spouses to 'flip a switch' so easily? Where does the 'child' go when the cycle is over? For a woman in MLC, could the cycling be more extreme during her monthly PMS? Related to the full moon? (Tonight is a full moon isn't it? What do I need to learn here?
During my wife's tirade this evening I had a very strong sense that the 'brat' was the one pushing for divorce, saying that 'she' wants to get away from, etc..., and NOT my 'real' wife (wherever she is hiding inside herself). Am I stupid for feeling this way?
radio, By coincidence or whatever, my W was the same way throughout the weekend. I like your analogy of the "brat" was the one pushing for the divorce. What I got was "I AM SO DONE WITH YOU" in rage form. You ask about the monthly PMS? Yes, Yes, Yes, every month it is far worse during that week. Hormones are very much part of this. That is why during this time, they go from one extreme to another. Some days they want to be more friendly, and other days they are pure evil. I swear I saw that my wife was possessed. Where is an exorcist when you need one? Know that you are not alone. I have been battling this for the last 10 months and I am afraid that it is just beginning. I hope I am wrong. Hang in there. You will make mistakes. Learn from them. I have made so many mistakes I don't know if I have made so many that I have messed everything up. Trouble is, I won't know that until I armchair quarterback this thing after it is all over. My question is, do some never make it through even exhibiting what your wife is doing. Do some stay in demon mode forever?
Oh man, talk about making mistakes. A few weeks ago she was cycling, I let her suck me in to her drama, and she was arguing trying to convince me that this entire mess is between her and I and no one else - nothing to do with our children, her parents, my parents, or even her EA partner.
Mistake #1 - Me pointing out to her that she pushes away everyone that loves her, yet allows herself to carry on talking to DJ (the EA guy who lives in China).
Mistake #2 - This evening I stopped her spewing at one point and pointed out what my son said to me just yesterday (see the post above my previous one) about having to lie to the neighbors because he doesn't want them to know that his mom and sister moved out of our family home. My wife's response? "So I moved out. That's my choice. Gabe shouldn't be embarrassed to tell the truth. He should just tell the truth."
Oh man, that pissed me off. I told her that, "No, since you were the one that made the choice to move out, and since you continue to make the choice to talk to DJ, YOU should tell the truth, not Gabe. The burden should not fall on him to answer any damn question (lie or not) about his mom's stupid choices.
I don't know how much [permanent] damage my honesty caused, but that response didn't sit too well with my 'brat' wife this evening...
I tried to communicate to her that she should not make any decisions about the future of our marriage based on her anger, unstable emotional state (I didn't tell her she was unstable), or until she has permanently severed her relationship with DJ. I told her there's no way she could look at the overall picture or state of our marriage with a clear mind while she was still involved with DJ. That didn't sit too well with the brat either...
I don't know how much [permanent] damage my honesty caused, but that response didn't sit too well with my 'brat' wife this evening...
I tried to communicate to her that she should not make any decisions about the future of our marriage based on her anger, unstable emotional state (I didn't tell her she was unstable), or until she has permanently severed her relationship with DJ. I told her there's no way she could look at the overall picture or state of our marriage with a clear mind while she was still involved with DJ. That didn't sit too well with the brat either...
In her state, there won't be any intelligent decisions. I said the exact same thing 3 months ago. She has not permanently severed anything and she won't have a clear mind. I keep reading you can't shortcut this. You and I both try and try and try. It starting to get like the coyote and roadrunner. This whole thing has to run it's course. About the time we have totally given up and accepted that this is just not going to get better and thrown in the towel, then the crap will start to fly. You and I started about the same time. "I am watching you McFly" (From Back to the Future)
