Absolutely. Gives me greater hope that if she comes out of the ether, it would be better than ever. A lot of work to do (she'd have a ton of issues and remorse to go through) but I can see the pattern my behaviour co-created. She was reacting to me.
I think it was a combination of both. You were reacting off her and she was reacting off you. It becomes a perpetual motion machine.
For example in my sitch: My W has controlling tendencies she got from her mom. I have passive tendencies I got from my dad. So when we got together, my passiveness put her in control of the R and her controlling tendencies came out - that in turn pushed me away due my reaction to being controlled, that forced her to take even more control, creating more resentment in me...etc.
If I had stepped up as a man (ala NMMNG) she wouldn't have been able to take control. Now that would have done one of two things - she would keep trying to take control and that would be the conflict where I was standing strong and not allowing it: would have destroyed the relationship years ago.
Or, her control tendencies would have been kept in check and my 'run and hide' response wouldn't be triggered.
Now if there is conflict between us and we could have identified it - she would have to fix her control issues, and I would have to fix my 'run and hide' issues - making for a healthier relationship.
Don't fall into the trap of taking the full blame in the conflicting issues. It's the coming together of the dysfunction and how they play off each other that causes the problems.
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
Wow. I just had a nice realization a few minutes ago. I was thinking about how Whiskey Tango had posted "You treat people the way they deserved to be treated."
Because I've been listening and reading No More Mister Nice Guy it's really sparked my thought process in this area.
In the past I would treat people with understanding and kindness (for the most part as best as I could) regardless of how they were being toward me.
To me there was a conflict between 'treating people the way I wanted to be treated' and 'treat people the way they deserved to be treated'.
Then I realized - I would want to be treated the way I deserved to be treated. If I'm being a smuck I would want to be treated as a person who is being a smuck. If I'm out of line I want to be called on it. If I'm being selfish I want to be treated as someone who is behaving that way. To me, that's taking full responsibility for myself. Therefore, if someone is lying and fabricating things about me (my W is currently on a tear doing this) I will treat her like someone who is doing that to me.
So with this in mind I draw boundaries that say I will not accept that kind of behavior. I will not be friends with someone who treats me like that. I will be pleasant and civil toward her but I will not treat her as I would treat a friend. I will do my best to be this way especially for my children. If she pulls unacceptable behavior toward me I will call her on it.
I will protect my boundaries because I know I am worth protecting.
If her behavior changes, I will change my behavior and boundaries accordingly.
<end of transmission>
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
So with this in mind I draw boundaries that say I will not accept that kind of behavior. I will not be friends with someone who treats me like that. I will be pleasant and civil toward her but I will not treat her as I would treat a friend. I will do my best to be this way especially for my children. If she pulls unacceptable behavior toward me I will call her on it. I will protect my boundaries because I know I am worth protecting. If her behavior changes, I will change my behavior and boundaries accordingly.
LOVE THIS!!
Originally Posted By: Steady
I would want to be treated the way I deserved to be treated. If I'm being a smuck I would want to be treated as a person who is being a smuck. If I'm out of line I want to be called on it. If I'm being selfish I want to be treated as someone who is behaving that way. To me, that's taking full responsibility for myself.
Very nice, Steady. Gonna "Sticky that sucka" on my mirror, too. Interesting how if everyone set proper boundaries, the world would have a built in "self-correcting attitude adjustment" mechanism.
You're bein' a d1ck? I'm calling you on and I'll expect the same, thank you.
Everyone wins.
I never saw the reciprocity benefit of boundaries before.
This was a post to a question I had on the Showing Strength and Love thread:
Post is by gucci loafer -
Originally Posted By: steady
Am I missing something here? I believe I am or I wouldn't be asking the question.
"Like many men and women you seem to associate love as only being flirty, nice, kind, turn the other cheek, etc. etc..
Sometimes you can NOT display strength and love. It sometimes just isn't possible to display them both at the same time...
Sometimes you have to display strength and allow them to believe that you don't love them.
Many display love and don't allow them to believe you have strength because of that.
Sometimes the correct thing is to display strenght and loving by being strong and loving YOURSELF.. It isn't always about loving them.
The strongest thing you can sometimes do is to show NO LOVE.Sometimes the loving thing looks like the hateful thing on the surface...
Those who battle this issue of how to display strength and loving are usually onlhy struggling with cake eating, door mat behavior and lettting go. They are usually struggling more with being strong than with loving. They sometimes want others to help them be enablers by telling them to "just keep on loving them, they will come around."
There should be more help on how to display strength than how to display love. We have an endless supply of people on this site trying to show how much they love their wayward. They do and try everything they can think of and even things others tell them to do to show love... That isn't the issue. The issue is strength."
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
There's a part of me that loves my W. This is self obvious. How do I show that love to her when she is treating me with such disrespect? A component of love is friendliness, caring about someones personal life, being physically in the same location, connecting through talking, etc...
While my W continues to treat me as she is, I can not keep my dignity and my boundaries in tact AND show love.
(Bear with me, this is a work in progress since you pointed us in this direction)
Instead I choose to love me. I will treat her with respect but I am not interested in being friends with her, helping her, being there for her, etc...
If she changes her behavior to me then I will then look at my boundaries and adjust them according to MY goals/wants and needs.
I'm thinking love lets go, allows people to do and be who they are, allows them to walk the path they are on. When her path conflicts with mine then I need to create a boundary.
Strength stands up and does the right thing regardless of what people think. My W may be totally pissed off at my boundary and it could drive her further away - I will keep my boundary regardless because it is there for my protection and not for her benefit or to get some kind of reaction out of her.
Even if she doesn't respect me for drawing the boundary I keep it there for something more important - my self respect.
I'm thinking love lets go, allows people to do and be who they are, allows them to walk the path they are on. When her path conflicts with mine then I need to create a boundary.
That is spot on my man. This how I view love too. You can let them go without the anger, resentment etc.
Quote:
Strength stands up and does the right thing regardless of what people think. My W may be totally pissed off at my boundary and it could drive her further away
Agree again. After I posted this to you I wrote down my own answer:
Strength is standing up for your own core. Your own beliefs and setting boundaries for YOU.
And most importantly enforcing those boundaries.
It is NOT controlling/manipulating.
I'll read the thread you referenced.
Thanks man.
Last edited by Truegritter; 08/20/1009:35 PM.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
At the end of the work day I sent my W a text to have the kids call me. They went away from Mon to today and I wanted to talk to them.
She sent a text back saying my D4 said no and my S7 said he'd call me later. I was a little annoyed at my W.
I sent a text back saying: "I usually don't give them a choice. I dial the phone and hand it to them whenever you ask to talk to them."
Two minutes later the phone rang and it was my S. I initially thought she was going to text back some defensive rationalization of why she doesn't just call and give them the phone but I was pleasantly surprised that didn't happen.
My S got off the phone and my W got on. We talked for a few minutes about some logistic stuff then got off.
I feel a little conflicted by a desire to try to put my family back together and a desire to just move on and leave it all behind me.
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
That's a conflict that comes to me a lot, too. I'm not looking forward to the work required to put it all back together; having to work my way past the A; and still it could blow up in my face later.
I, like you, am quite a way down the road "past" them and I have less and less inclination to want to slow down for the catch-up. I certaily am not willing to stop and wait. All that tells me is that, if they turn toards us, they better run.
