Relocated the family and he dropped the bomb

[steady]

I totally agree with Coach. You are attempting to draw a boundary but you are wavering on it.

Cut off contact with OW or leave. It's your choice. Make it by _____ because I have decisions."

Period.

You going back in after that to tell him you don't want him to move out just takes the boundary you set and negated it.

I understand the fear you have. You set the boundary, he called you on it, you backed away from it because you fear what it will mean to you, your children, him, your family, your dreams, your hopes, your desire to put your M back together, etc....

When you slide your boundaries around like that he will continue to waffle in his decision. There is no one putting his a$$ in the fire and making him responsible for himself. PERIOD.

Let me propose this -

You set the boundary. You dig in and stick to it. He moves out in three weeks. Being out of the house he has plenty of time and space to sit in his own sh!t. He realizes he is being totally irresponsible and takes it upon himself to make it right.

He comes back and the two of you repair your M and have a better R than before.

If you knew this would happen for sure - guaranteed, what would be different for you today? How would you be acting differently? Wouldn't the decision to hold your boundary be a no-brainer?

No one can tell you what will happen. There are no crystal balls out there. You need to reclaim YOUR power, YOUR dignity, YOUR self respect.

It's yours. Will you claim it?

So do I help him pack up or just leave him alone in the house?

Don't help him. Let him do the work.

I think he rationalizes that it's ok b/c it's not physical,..

Of course he is rationalizing. They will twist everything to justify their behavior.

... and I don't know if they will ever stop contact.

If he doesn't what will you do? You can't guess the future, but sure as h3ll can draw boundaries and make decisions for your self-preservation.

...She is devastated right now and clinging on to him for life.

This cr@p about still staying in touch with OW is a bunch of bull. It doesn't matter if she's a wreck - that's her problem. She got involved with a M man. Too bad for her. She's an adult and she needs to take responsibility for herself. It's not your H job to soothe her and somehow 'protect' her from the consequences of her actions.

[steady]

Read Coach's post over and over until you get it in your bones.

The boundary around a A needs to be firm and non-negotiable.

"I have decided I won't share my husband with another woman. If you don't immediately cease all contact then I will pack up your things and initiate a divorce."

If he agrees then you have your transparency plan ready - a no-contact letter sent to her which you witness and have access to all forms of communication and financial records.

Don't you deserve it?

[MM78]

Should I say you have until Monday to conclude all contact with her?

This weekend should I ask him to go stay in a hotel, ignore him around the house, or take the kids and go visit a friend?

I thought I was so prepared to be non-negotiable and the gravity of the situation and my sleeping babies in the next room turned me back to mush. I don't want them thinking this is acceptable. He has said he is trying to get her to go away, and obviously he is being too nice about it. If he has until Monday maybe he can feel that he wrapped things up with her in a way that he is satisfied with and that comes from him so it won't be a 'you took her away' thing. He feels that he's had to give up everything to be with me and lost his friends and family because of my. Ironically, I feel similarly that I gave everything up for him. Who's right? No one, but we both feel that way. He is going to add this to things to resent me for if I force him to make her gone NOW vs when he's ready. But I also can't wait forever.

I'm sorry if I'm so dense about this. I thought I had it all clear and figured out yesterday.

[MM78]

I wanted to add that he still doesn't think she is the cause or solution to our R problems. He said we had them before her, we hardly did anything together before her, so removing her won't change anything. No we didn't do anything together before her because he was working 100 hrs a week. And 4 months into that his brother died. And then he sat alone in the basement to drink and smoke and mourn. And then we had a baby..... so no we never got to a happy place in our marriage where we felt connected. We haven't felt connected since we were dating.

[steady]

Should I say you have until Monday to conclude all contact with her?

What do you want? What is your time limit? It can be 10 minutes from now if that's what you want. You're looking at it backwards. You're thinking - how much time does HE need in order to do this... now turn that around - how much time are YOU WILLING to give him? That's your answer.

This weekend should I ask him to go stay in a hotel, ignore him around the house, or take the kids and go visit a friend?

Again, what do you want? Take away the - 'Well if I do this....then this may happen' thinking. What do you want to do for you and your D. What is BEST for you and them?

I thought I was so prepared to be non-negotiable and the gravity of the situation and my sleeping babies in the next room turned me back to mush.

Don't beat yourself up over this. We all have been there and done that. You are learning something that's directly opposite of how you have probably been your whole life.

I don't want them thinking this is acceptable.

This is, in my opinion, one of your greatest motivators. You need to be the example of a healthy parent making strong and healthy decisions for you and your D's. If your daughter's were grown and one of them was going through what you are going through, what would you advise her to do? Would you want her tolerate such flagrant disrespect and irresponsibility from her H?

He has said he is trying to get her to go away, and obviously he is being too nice about it.

Like I posted earlier. Cutting off is cutting off. A swift, sharp, decisive blow is what is needed. Do you think for a second if he absolutely made up his mind to break contact he couldn't absolutely do it on the spot?

If he has until Monday maybe he can feel that he wrapped things up with her in a way that he is satisfied with and that comes from him so it won't be a 'you took her away' thing.

Why are you taking responsibility for him? Understandably your thinking is reversed. We need to swing you around 180 degrees. Maybe he can feel he is satisfied, maybe he won't? How could you possibly know?

Why does that even matter? He is responsible to make a choice based on a boundary you draw. If he doesn't like it, well that's his problem. What if he tells you he needs 6 months to break it off? What if he can never do it in a way he is 'satisfied'?

This is NOT about you controlling him and 'taking something away' from him. This is about YOU. We keep pointing your attention back onto you and away from him.

He feels that he's had to give up everything to be with me and lost his friends and family because of my. Ironically, I feel similarly that I gave everything up for him. Who's right? No one, but we both feel that way. He is going to add this to things to resent me for if I force him to make her gone NOW vs when he's ready. But I also can't wait forever.

Could you wait until one second before forever? You are stalling making a time frame boundary.

I'm sorry if I'm so dense about this. I thought I had it all clear and figured out yesterday.

Don't apologize for being who you are. You don't need to defend, explain or rationalize. You are who you are.

We don't 'get it', until we 'get it'. Some get there quicker than others. You are trying to completely reverse a lifetime of people pleasing and focusing on what you think other people need - instead of taking care of your needs.

This is obvious by your posts and the direction you are facing.

You deserve to take care of yourself. You need to do this in order to teach your D's how to do it. They learn by your actions and not your words. I know they are too young right now but as they grow what kind of example do you want them to see and grow into?

[Dagny-2]

Last time when I was here I worked so hard to keep him living in the house, but it wasn't until he left that he was forced to face his own unhappiness, it wasn't me causing it, it wasn't the kids causing it, it wasn't home, it was just him. I know everyone is different, but for him, that helped.

And I sure do understand about turning to mush, especially where the kids are involved. These guys are obviously intelligent men, yet they seem to fail to use it.

[soleil]

He has said he is trying to get her to go away, and obviously he is being too nice about it.

He is not "trying." He is not "doing" it until it's done. He's pussyfooting around is what it is (no pun intended). Breaking it off is just that, breaking it off completely.

If he has until Monday maybe he can feel that he wrapped things up with her in a way that he is satisfied with and that comes from him so it won't be a 'you took her away' thing.

You won't be "taking her away." He is the one who brought her into your M. Not you.

I wanted to add that he still doesn't think she is the cause or solution to our R problems.

Well, she is certainly not going to make things any better in your M as long as she's in the picture.

Time to put your foot down.

[Coach]

I think he is going out with new work friends tonight

He said we had them before her, we hardly did anything together before her, so removing her won't change anything. No we didn't do anything together before her because he was working 100 hrs a week.

Yet he has time to go out without you now? Do you see how you can't let his "thinking" take you off your mission? He blames you to confuse you and get you off track. Don't take the bait.

Be very aware of your conversations. Check your emotions at the door.

[MM78]

Minor breakthrough last night. I approached him with some of the things he had said the previous night regarding him saying I do not listen to him. I brought those points up and tried to validate them. I did say it's clear that you have been building up resentment for years and everything I do just aggravates you because there is a chip on your shoulder toward me. I apologized for my part in making him feel I did not listen or respect his wishes. He said it's not my fault at all and I said we both have a part in this and I take responsibility of my part. Later in the convo I said that all I am asking for is to be respected and he knows what I need in order for that to happen. He actually looked at me without the anger/hate I have seen lately and with sadness, caring, and a realization that he had a big part in the situation at hand. That was big for me.

Upstairs I told him about the room rates at the extended stay hotel and he said it was a lot of money and I said you said you needed time alone so I encourage you to go to do that if it's what you need. The rentals around here are only done in 1 year leases so I said go to the hotel and decide if that is what you would like to do.

And then I sent the following email. I am hesitant to post here because I think you are going to be frustrated that I'm not following your advice. I am trying. I do plan to let him know that if he cannot cut off contact by Monday, he will need to pack a bag when the girls are asleep and put in his car and not come home after work Tuesday.

I felt I needed to write this to address some of his doubts. He said he doesn't want the marriage his parents have, that would be the worst possible outcome. He also feels we had problems before her (which we did) so he feels that by cutting her off we'll still have problems (which we will). But I can't work on the marriage with her in the picture.

I feel like now I have clearly explained where I stand, I have clearly stated that I am confident that we can work through this, and I have clearly stated I need for her to be removed from his life. Now I need to restate the boundary and that he needs to make his choice and take a step back.

Going to post the email below.

With that said, I do appreciate the advice, it rings in my head all day, I am trying to do what I think is best for us, including myself. And I know I can't be 'Little Bo Peep' anymore like Puppy says.

[MM78]

Email I wrote...

This is instead of running in to talk right now so you can get rest tonight here are a few thoughts written out...

I sense that you have alot of doubt about our relationship working out long term. I do not have any. I truly feel that if we can put any built up bitterness and resentment aside and reconnect, talk about the things the bother and fester inside us, that we can make changes and be so much stronger in the end. By doing so, right there, we do not have the relationship that your parents have. Theirs is full of bitterness and stubbornness not to change.

As for your argument that we didn't do things before OW came into your life - no we did not. I felt that was how you wanted the marriage to work so I tried to respect it. You worked a TON of hours, when I asked if anything was wrong you always told me it was that you were tired. If you really just didn't want to be around me, I never got the hint. I really felt you were tired. I asked you many times to watch movies or a show and made suggestions of comedies and other things we could watch. I would have seen Avatar or any of the Twilights with you. I would rather not see scary/gory that keep me up at night when I am home alone so many nights. But I'm not asking you to go see romantic comedies. I'm happy to see something we both want to see.

As for the sleeping arrangement, I would love to snuggle like we did in college. You told me you needed sleep and didn't want that. I tried to respect that wish. I never felt it was done because we 'weren't working out'. A few months after you started work and hadn't even adjusted yet, other things happened. I gave you space then so you could grieve in your own way. Again, I didn't think it was because we weren't working out. Next up we had a baby. When I was home on maternity leave with D1, you were awesome. I remember you would stay up from night float to let me sleep while you rocked her. You were the rock I needed to support me. I felt like a family. I never knew your resentment was building. Again, whenever I asked if something was wrong you just said you were tired. I believed you, who wouldn't be tired after the hours you worked?

At that point, when D1 was 9-10 months was the first time you and OW went to dinner and it didn't feel right but you said it was just a friend and I respected that. I really got the vibe that it was affecting us and something wasn't right the night we went to the Hibachi place on March 28,2008 (two days before I knew D2 was on her way). Obviously to me, this was when things went wrong in OUR relationship. I know you don't feel the same. This is when I started to be sidelined, my 30th birthday was a dinner at McDonald's and Mother's Day's were nothing. This is when I felt replaced and I suppose I started to build resentment.

Where am I now? Am I hurt? Yes. Am I resentful. Not really. That won't get me anywhere. My girls are worth more than that. They are worth more than my ego or trying to keep score with you on who hurt who more.

I've had many more hours than you to ponder all of this and I truly believe with 100% certainty that this could be what we needed to break down the walls. To open dialogue and communication and to achieve a closer friendship and relationship than we thought possible. Going forward we will no longer take the marriage for granted. A marriage is like a living thing, it needs care and attention. When we were college freshman we discussed this and said we both agreed that in a family the marriage needs to come first and is the foundation for the family and the children. We were right then. We lost our way. We got carried away in the day to day, surviving the residency, taking care of the kids, and we let life come between us.

This is our opportunity to change it. We are in a perfect setting to do it with you having a less demanding position temporarily, no other friends or family to interfere, in a pretty small town with lots of family places to explore. We can definitely do this, without a doubt, IF we BOTH want it and we both work toward it. I have zero doubts. I am looking forward to leaving here and going to the next place for your career as a strong loving family.

Based on what you said Sunday you do want to make this work too. If you have doubts or concerns, let's discuss them. I am confident that we can look back on this time in our lives a few years from now and say that was rough, but so worth it in the end to get us to where we are going to be.