You can't have everything, where would you put it?

[ClingingToHope]

Soleil, I think the forgiveness has started. I don't experience as nearly as much pain as I did a year ago. When my brain starts wandering, I think of potential conversations down the road and little zingers I can deliver.

Then I try to snap myself out of it by saying part of forgiveness is leaving the need for revenge at the door.

IR, I think I'm supposed to stand near the entrance and direct people to the check-in tables. Nothing greater than that. Of course, I'll probably be a little more helpful to the ladies.

[ClingingToHope]

First night of round three of Marriage Rebuilders -- for those who have been divorced or going through one -- was interesting.

Three people back from the spring class. Two that I like -- and one lady who is just so blind to her anger and bitterness issues that she's going to lose her kids. Two of the four already chose to live with the dad. She says he's buying them. Just listening to her, I think they want to get away from her nasty temper. I don't even like having to be at the same table.

She has not gotten any better since spring.

Of the newbies, we had a 32-year-old really attractive girl whose husband left her a month ago and moved to North Carolina. She has a 3-year-old and 17-month-old and she just filed bankruptcy and for divorce. He left her more than $30k in debt.

Wow. I thought I had it bad.

We talked after.

Another full day. A couple of texts from STBXW. D8 is throwing a fit she can't go with D11 tomorrow. Hey, it's her night to handle it.

Second. The bus schedule for D8 has her being picked up at 6:38 a.m. Again, consequences. STBXW has to be at work at 8:15 a.m., which is when school starts. So she can't drop the girls off at school. They have to take the bus.

D8 is on a special bus because she's going to a school outside of our zone because it has the ADHD program.

If STBXW can't get it worked out, it puts her in a real bind. That's awful early to have to get D8 up and ready for school.

Plus, I'm guessing it'll just add to STBXW's resentment of me. I don't have to be at work until 9 a.m. -- and really later if I have things going on. So I drive the girls to school EVERY morning they stay with me. That gives them each an extra 45 minutes or so of sleep.

I didn't respond to that email. She wanted to be a single parent. Well, there's scheduling issues that come with that -- deal with it.

[ClingingToHope]

And my emotional house falls apart again.

Snafu with D11's daycare situation today so STBXW drops her off at my apartment. I was upstairs changing when STBXW came inside and did not come down to see her.

So now I have D11, who I haven't seen in a week and she starts telling my about STBXW's trip to South Dakota, how she bought a Harley jacket, how she got a bunch of CDs from a concert, how her friends taught her how to ride a motorcycle.

This from a person too scared to learn how to ski or go snorkeling around fish.

I told her to stop. That I didn't want to hear what STBXW does as a single woman.

D11 says that STBXW went with her friend Cassie to S.D.

I told her Cassie wouldn't have taught her how to ride a motorcycle. That STBXW did go to S.D. with Cassie, but she also went with a bunch of single men.

And I told her that that's probably the last straw between her mom and I. I was not happy she went there with a bunch of single men.

I don't know if I should have said the last part, but she kept asking questions about why I didn't want to hear it.

And now, D11 is here at work with me, and I feel like my world is crashing in around me again. As much as I try NOT to be an optimist and just focus on me -- I still cling to hope. I small part of me thought 11 hours in a car with her best friend -- who I always considered a friend -- might possibly change things.

I can't stop myself -- and then when it doesn't happen I crash again.

[CityGirl]

You seem like a smart man so perhaps using a factual approach would help.

Your W told you she wanted a divorce 18 months ago. She left the family home 15 months ago. She filed for a legal divorce 6 months ago. Those are all facts as per your signature. Why did you feel all of a sudden an eleven HOUR car ride would shift her thinking it all? While this may sound harsh when somebody walks out on a marriage and forces the children to live in two houses and files for divorce it is VERY doubtful that a car ride would change a thing.

Detach.

You do keep busy which is good and you certainly take note often of women you see out but internally you must make the "surface life" you have match your mindset.

At this point having ANY expectations is simply a form of torture.

Being optimistic about you, your present and future is VERY important but optimism and clinging are two very different things. And really, all it does is greatly hamper your ability to detach and heal.

[Virtually_Handsome]

CTH... I hate to bring out the 2x4, but in this case, well, I can't help it.

You are the parent, you have to put your daughter's needs above yours, and you blew it, in my opinion. She was talking about her Mom's... you needed to listen and let it go. Not tell her you didn't want to hear what she had to say.

And it just went downhill after that. You succeeded in putting her in the middle, you just can't let that happen.

As CG said, the answer is detach.

[ClingingToHope]

Yes, CG, those are all the facts and yet there is this deep down area where the hope just won't die. Why in this case did I still cling? The 11-hour car ride was with the maid of honor from our wedding who helped get us together in the first place. Months and months ago I thought STBXW hanging out with the MOH was a good thing because I've always considered MOH my biggest booster.

I know and agree with what you are saying. But I've lived my life as the ultimate optimist and to change that thinking will take time.

I think I will be better tomorrow. It's all a part of the process isn't it. Some people have it just drilled into them. They discover an OM or an OW and the brutal truth is right there.

For me, there's never been proof of an OM. She's around guys and one may be an OM, but I don't have solid proof. So that leaves me with her depression issues -- and the faint feelings that someday she'll realize I wasn't the reason she was unhappy. That it was other issues that she used me as a scapegoat for.

And V_H, I'm not arguing. I went too far. I was trying to set a boundary with D11 -- that she shouldn't tell me about her mom's personal life. I told her I don't want her telling STBXW about mine when I start dating.

I went too far in pointing out her mom was likely there with single men and that that was the last straw for me.

I can't take it back though. I can only keep going.

[CityGirl]

I didn't suggest you stop being optimistic. I suggested you channel your energies into being optimistic about areas of your life that you can control and change.

And really, this MOH business is you simply acting on FEELINGS instead of reality. It's a hard shift to make, I know. People change and your W has changed - if her own CHILDREN can't make her take pause it's not likely a MOH from 14 years ago would. The MOH might adore you to bits but her support and loyalty is with your W.

You are upset that your W is acting on her feelings but you are kind of doing the same.

Everybody needs to have hope about *something* but at this juncture your hope and emotional clinging is actually what might be preventing you from having hope in all the other areas of your life that need it.

[ClingingToHope]

I am going to Celebrate Recovery on Fridays to work on codependency. So much of my life is very, very good and yet the fact this one depressed person rejected me just eats away at my self esteem.

I know I need to forgive and move on and a lot of the days I'm good. Last night, at the divorce rebuilding workshop I realized how far along I am.

But then today comes and D11 starts talking about what a great time STBXW had and ... boom, down I go.

Does that every totally go away?

[CityGirl]

I always view things as moving FORWARD instead of moving ON. Moving "on" is what the WAS do - they decide for multiple people this is for the best and they move on. Your life will be far better if you decide to move FORWARD.

Your W was probably the biggest and certainly the most important part of your life for a very, very long time. And like you said, you now realize she isn't the sort of person you ever really liked or enjoyed anyway. As you stated above the rejection you feel eats at your self esteem and that really isn't so much about your W but more about you.

But really, you can't bank on your W's actions to fix your self esteem issues. Rejection by somebody who was "front and center" in your life is very painful... I think we can all agree on that but only you can decide that she will not dictate the strength of your self esteem.

Does it every go away? I really can't answer about "forever" but I do know the longer you let the actions of a WAS to keep you fragile the longer you will suffer.

My H has been in his affair for now 3 years. I read and read and read some more about how affairs never last and blah blah blah. I question those statistics because the few people I know who had affairs IRL are all now married to their affair partner and have been for some time. My H goes home every night to a very fly, very expensive townhouse to the love of his life (apparently) without a care in the world. Does it make me feel bad? Sometimes. But I also know that my H has always been a very weak man, has not a clue how to lead in a R, lives his life on the surface and needs way too much coddling, touching, reassurance and ego boosting. So you weigh the good with the bad.

I'm glad you see progress. It's very important. But keep the progress about you. I always find it very questionable when WAS are "depressed" yet they manage to vacation and become deeply involved in other enjoyable activities. I'm not sure if you are aware but last year I was diagnosed with clinical depression and a situational panic disorder stemming from tremendous anxiety about my H's verbal/emotional abuse, his infidelity and the extreme legal situation I was thrust in. Completing basic tasks like showering or walking my dog became monumental. That is depression. WAS (IMO) use 'depression' as their crutch because if you can vacation for 10 days you aren't depressed. It's an easy "WAS diagnosis" instead of forcing them to see their actual disorder is entitlement, laziness, lack of maturity and possession of tools to make long term R's work.

We learn each day I guess!

[Virtually_Handsome]

CG nailed it! Move forward...to the future, not on....away from the past!