Not sure where to start, or end. WAW?

[Chuck66]

I'm glad you didn't say any of that to her. Tired of doing the work for both of you? Detach and GAL and it won't feel like that.

[john28]

LAMONT !!!

"You just dumb, son. You just dumb."

She asked if I wanted to go to bed. I asked her if she was tired, she said no. I don't know what do you want to do? I don't know what do you want to do? I donno what do you want to do? I just got up, grabbed a beer

she is going to think you are gay if you keep this up

Maybe I'm just dense, but I'm fairly certain that she didn't want to have sex when she asked me if I was going to bed. I think she just wanted to go to bed and spend time with me there reading. I'm pretty sure sex with me is the last thing on her mind right now, but I'll continue to post here and maybe you guys can point out my lameness in recognizing signs.

[john28]

I'm glad you didn't say any of that to her. Tired of doing the work for both of you? Detach and GAL and it won't feel like that.

Exactly, that's why I don't talk... I know I'm not that good of a DB yet to express to her clearly without screwing it up.

[Chuck66]

You're going to be fine.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Maybe I'm just dense, but I'm fairly certain that she didn't want to have sex when she asked me if I was going to bed. I think she just wanted to go to bed and spend time with me there reading. I'm pretty sure sex with me is the last thing on her mind right now, but I'll continue to post here and maybe you guys can point out my lameness in recognizing signs.

She may or may no thave actually ALLOWED you to have sex with her.

She most CERTAINLY wanted to know she could still CONTROL you by using sex (or the promise of it) -- probably to then rudely reject you again.

As you do your successful GAL and detaching stuff (and yes, John, you have done some of it well), it throws off the marital relationship equilibrium that she's accustomed to, and she's trying to dangle the carrot of sex as a means to get you back under control.

In my opinion.

Puppy

[Coach]

I am just tired of going after someone who is clearly in love with me, but doesn't want to work on the M. I'm just beaten and tired of feeling like I have to do all the work for the both of us, so I'm inclined not to do it anymore - but the character of who I am and the man I want to be will not allow me just to quit on our M. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to start preparing to distance myself from W emotionally (drop the rope) so I can preserve my own self. I love her, and I want to be in a M with her, but I'm starting to get a concussion from continually banging my head up against the wall when she says she loves me, kisses me, flirts with me, and stays with me. I love my W and our family, but I will not continue an emotional life like this without a committment from both of us.

I get that you are frustrated and confused. Go back and read that comment out loud to yourself. Detach and comment on it like someone else wrote it. I only "got it" when I could "coach" myself on what to do. Check your emotions at the door and think thru it. Is what you are doing working? Your wife is showing very good signals to you, learn to be a cat whipserer. Men are dogs stop thinking about what a dog would do.

[john28]

We have MC in 4 hours, and I'll be honest that I'm nervous. The MC is meeting with us individually for about 20-30 minutes and thing bringing us in together. I have no idea what is going to happen, but I will stress to the MC in confidence:

- I do not want a S, and knowing my wife and how immature she is, a S would be the end of my M because my W refuses to face these problems head on, both hers and mine
- I do not want the old M back, and express to her the reasons that I do not
- I feel that even though my W is saying she doesn't "want to want to try" she is giving the opposite words and actions at the house when I pull away... she is coming to me. And, my W isn't sure she wants to leave. I would implore the MC to discuss the potential good that could come out of her working on the M while she stays.
- I am feeling like dropping the rope, and moving on emotionally from this situation.
- I have cancelled a business trip this month to TX where I have several ex-gf's that I know would be a high temptation for me to do something stupid knowing they would be available to me. I am quite fearful that since my needs are not being met, I will go outside the marriage to get them met. My integrity is keeping me from doing this otherwise.
- I must have transparency in this R if it is to go anywhere anytime soon. I will ask the MC her experience with this, whether it is permanent transparency, or a period of complete transparency. I know the MC is an advocate of transparency.
- I will not let my W control me anymore, and likewise I will not control her. I want the MC to give us the tools to correct that for the both of us together.

[Chuck66]

I want the MC to give us the tools to correct that for the both of us together.

Keep expectations low. Relax too.

[john28]

Other things I will add to tell the MC (sorry, trying to make a list to bring with me):

- I will not play any more games. W is trying to pull me into games - example: phone incident, hair tie incident.
- W is projecting that I am cheating on her and she does not trust me to lull me into being defensive, rather than offensive in my feelings.
- We did agree to transparency, all but passwords of online activity.
- When I stand up to my wife on my integrity and boundaries, she thinks I am being controlling and "dad". I need to understand from MC how to better react to these situations.

[Steve McQueen]

you should ask, did you want to fool around last night or were you yanking my chain.