Anybody out there who can talk a minute?

[Return10]

Reviewed the detachment link. Good reminder. I especially like this part:

To "let go" is not to try to change or blame another; it's to make the most of myself.
* To "let go" is not to care for, but to care about.
* To "let go" is not to fix, but to be supportive.
* To "let go" is not to judge, but to allow another to be a human being.
* To "let go" is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own destinies.
* To "let go" is not to be protective; it's to permit another to face reality.
* To "let go" is not to deny, but to accept.
* To "let go" is not to nag, scold or argue, but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
* To "let go" is not to criticize and regulate anybody, but to try to become what I dream I can be.
* To "let go" is not to adjust everything to my desires, but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.
* To "let go" is to not regret the past, but to grow and live for the future.

What I especially like is that this section acknowledges the inescapable human condition of interdependence. The wonderful human condition of interdependence! Part of what "I dream to be" is highly skilled in interpersonal relationships which means interacting in a way that enhances both the other and me.

Had a good talk with my H. Things are better but I'd like to hang around here and see if I can't shift us to a better place with some input from you lovely folks.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

What I especially like is that this section acknowledges the inescapable human condition of interdependence. The wonderful human condition of interdependence! Part of what "I dream to be" is highly skilled in interpersonal relationships which means interacting in a way that enhances both the other and me.

Hunh??? I don't understand a word of that.


Puppy

[Return10]

Sorry, I was writing with a lot going on around me and probably was a bit incoherent. I'll try again: Codependence is a big problem but so is the notion that we are independent. What we are and the best we can be is interdependent in a healthy way. No one gets very far all by themselves and when support and true caring thrive people do the best. These forums are a great illustration of that.

This evening went better but still rough. H wanted to show D a gift that he got her: 8 CDs worth of Live Aid from the 80s. She was busy about the house and was politely watching as she could while getting things done that need to be done. H was offended. Not as badly as last night but, shesh, this is his interest not hers. He's always a bit this way but this week has been a bit much. I'm not even going to get into whether he's having an affair. I'm concentrating on being the best I can be and being as helpful as I can to all these people that I love in a way that benefits me too. If H is acts a pill, sooner or later he'll figure it out, I'm going to forgive him and be an example of kindness to him. I am very interested in reading Michele's book about Changing Your Husband. We'd all be happier especially my H! Can't get it now cause we're headed home in a couple days. Any tips that might help my situation? PS To clarify, if I did find out there has been another affair, I would definitely leave the marriage, won't go through that again.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

OK, thanks for clarifying, but I'm still confused by the position that you're taking, Return.

This:

I'm not even going to get into whether he's having an affair. I'm concentrating on being the best I can be and being as helpful as I can to all these people that I love in a way that benefits me too. If H is acts a pill, sooner or later he'll figure it out, I'm going to forgive him and be an example of kindness to him.

doesn't jibe with this:

PS To clarify, if I did find out there has been another affair, I would definitely leave the marriage, won't go through that again.

You say it's a dealbreaker for you, there's evidence that he is, he's had an affair before, and yet you're not going to try to determine the truth of what's going on?

That just makes no sense to me.

I can understand and respect (but disagree with) those that say "it's not a dealbreaker," and I certainly understand (and advocate) the position of "It's definitely a dealbreaker, so I'm going to verify whether or not he's having an affair before deciding what to do." And even the stance of "I'm just going to ASSUME THAT HE IS, since all of the evidence points to it, and proceed accordingly" works.

But "It LOOKS like he is, it's a DEALBREAKER for me, but I'm just not going to worry about that" . . . I just don't get that.

Puppy

[Return10]

The affair was over, wow, 11 years ago. My H can be a supreme, master, ufb (is that ok here?) deceiver and acts, appears, (you get the idea) like pure innocence so it does make it very tough for me. Over the years I have, from time to time, done all the normal things to check up on him and had successful heart to heart talks. However, there are only a few thingst that I'm absolutely sure about, like: the affair completely ended (he was sick of her, we moved 1,000 mi, got into all kinds of therapy, Retrovaille, etc). I have thought of things like putting a secret GPS on the car and when he gets as weird as he's getting now, I think about it very carefully. In this particular situation there's a whole lot of things that could explain his weirdness and I try to remember that before jumping straight to the idea of an affair.

When we get home, we are actually "back to the scene" of the affair and he hasn't been here for years (I have cause my D and GD are here) which of course is another reason for him to weird out, but when we do finally get home, now that the broken car is taken care of that delayed us, I have a therapist that I've seen for years, off and on, and I'll make an appointment for the both of us and MAYBE get some clues as to what this has really been about.

Back to your being perplexed by me, dear Puppy, (love your name ) I believe that if I handle myself well, I will either find out there's an affair, which will be painful but I will never be blindsided and hurt so bad ever again and I know what I will do, or, it will blow over and because I'm so annoyed with these antics, I will get back to some serious DBing so I don't bail on the marriage myself (don't want to do that even if just partially emotionally, really want a good marriage!)and I honestly believe that the later is more likely the case. Not much sleep here and not quite enough caffiene so hope it makes sense .

[Puppy Dog Tails]

It makes sense, but I don't agree with it.

Affairs are addictions.

Addictions don't "blow over."

from my personal archives:


“Affairs are ADDICTIONS” – and they DON’T “die a natural death!”

I'm sorry, but I think you're being naive. Check out my # of posts -- I've been here six years (counting my prior time as "Chocolateeyes") and have studied literally THOUSANDS of affairs. I've simply never seen the "Little Bo-Peep" approach work. You leave them alone, and they WON'T come home, wagging their tails behind them.

Affairs are ADDICTIONS. Google "PEA brain love lust addiction" and do some research on it. And then try to name for me ONE other type of addiction -- gambling, alcohol, drugs, sexual addiction, ANYTHING -- that dies its own natural death if you leave it alone.

You can't.

In fact, nearly all begin to ESCALATE, as the addict needs a stronger and stronger rush to get their "fix."


As for this:

I have a therapist that I've seen for years, off and on, and I'll make an appointment for the both of us and MAYBE get some clues as to what this has really been about.

, that presupposes that your husband will tell the therapist the TRUTH. That's a huge leap, Return.

The problem with these situations is this:

If your husband isn't cheating on you, he'll say there is no one else.

And if your husband IS cheating on you, he'll say there is no one else.

Do you see the problem with that?

If there's no one else, then a good therapist can likely elicit some serious introspection on your husband's part, and glean some TRUTH and therefore things to work on. However, if your husband's brain is addled by the rush of a million PEAs (love chemicals), then what will come out of his mouth in therapy is obfuscastion, spin and fog at best, and outright lies and deceit at worst.

That's all I'm sayin'.

Puppy

[Return10]

Frank Pittman did a good job of explaining how there are different kinds of affairs in his book "Private Lies". I found that book quite helpful in many ways. Oops gotta run!

[Return10]

So, Pup, your logic would say that there's no such thing as a person who had only one affair? I expect that you could find a whole lot of folks on this sight alone who had one and only one affair. Sometimes, as Frank writes, it's an addiction, other times it's not. Plus you write that affairs/addictions don't resolve by themselves. True. Both take a hell of a lot of work.

In any case, as Michele writes, the way to put a marriage back together is not by focusing on the problem, whether it's an affair or whatever, that's a waste of time, focus on the solution. I'm here to tell ya, she's right about that. We've had a lot of good years post affair. Many people do! although I'll also tell you that when I first found out about it I'd never have believed that all our healing was possible and it did take a long, long time. Obviously healing from an affair doesn't fix everything or I wouldn't be here. There are lots of problems couples can have besides affairs.