Not sure where to start, or end. WAW?

[Steve McQueen]

additional words of advice.

dont even trust close mutual friends when your wife needs to confide her secrets, concerns and feelings in men other then you.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

additional words of advice.

dont even trust close mutual friends when your wife needs to confide her secrets, concerns and feelings in men other then you.

I agree. Plus (and the point i was trying to make) is that it sets you up, John, in this whole "slippery-slope" thing, whereby you've got to make case-by-case, subjective judgment calls on "Oh, this guy is OK; this other guy isn't," etc.

I personally don't think it's such a hot idea for married people to have platonic friendships with someone of the oppositive sex (outside of business relationships) PERIOD, but CERTAINLY not when a marriage reaches the stage where yours is, John, with multiple infidelities. It's just playing with fire, and giving her the matches.

Puppy

[Steve McQueen]

This is one time that I would say don't believe everything they say, as if this was whole truth you would not be reading it, first(hand).

IF you really want to know what she has to say you might consider finding out what she is saying to these (boy)friends.

BLECCH!

I'm just not sure how to "be there for her" and "spend time with her" without being it's one of the things she spelled out very clearly in the letter to the MC.

[john28]

Nothing new to report tonight.

We had the transparency talk. She agreed to the following:
- No R talks after 10pm at night because we're both too tired to discuss anything
- No meeting with the opposite sex unless the other person has met them. (I tried the NC with opposite sex, but she didn't like that considering she has a good gay friend, and one guy friend. We can talk about that more in MC this week.)
- No more saying "Fine" or "nothing" when responding to, "What is going on / How are you feeling." We must communicate truths, not shadows.
- Full explanations of any plans outside the house. Where, who, when, calls when leaving and returning.
- Full internet transparency (FB, email, phone, etc) after our MC this Wednesday. I agreed to this because I knew this is a HUGE issue for her (controlling, manipulative, father figure), but I'm the one who suggested that if she would agree to this, I would give her a time window to become accustomed to it before relinquishingn control. She said OK and that she would do so after she talked with MC about it so she could feel more comfortable about it.

Then I was super tired. Went to bed to read and take a nap and she came in there to do the same. Slept a while, son got up from his nap, she stayed in bed while I got dinner ready. We ate. I told her I was going out. Went and played some night golf from 8:30 - 11:30pm and came home.

She asked about who/where/when and I was honest and open. She asked why I was mad when I left, and I told her that I was not angry but I was upset because she stayed in bed after our S4 repeatedly asked her to get out and help with dinner, and I had to make it all.

Later tonight she has been saying things while on the laptops like, "I'm talking to my sister right now on chat." or "I'm talking to XYZ person on FB now." I wasn't even asking.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

- No meeting with the opposite sex unless the other person has met them. (I tried the NC with opposite sex, but she didn't like that considering she has a good gay friend, and one guy friend. We can talk about that more in MC this week.)

OK, so what's going to happen when she announces to you a third guy friend, who you DON'T know (or don't know well), who's a flaming heterosexual, and about whom you've got this gnawing knot in your stomach, saying "Warning, Will Robinson!" ???

- Full internet transparency (FB, email, phone, etc) after our MC this Wednesday. I agreed to this because I knew this is a HUGE issue for her (controlling, manipulative, father figure), but I'm the one who suggested that if she would agree to this, I would give her a time window to become accustomed to it before relinquishingn control. She said OK and that she would do so after she talked with MC about it so she could feel more comfortable about it.

WTF??? "I agree to stop playing with matches, but I get to keep the kerosene and matches until this Wednesday, when we can talk to the MC about it." lol

I hope your position at the MC appt will be FIRM with this, John. This isn't about "control," this is about a perfectly reasonable (considering her multiple past infidelities) boundary that YOU need in order to be willing to remain in the marriage with her.

From my personal archives:


The best way I can answer that is that if you make it about HER, they will come across as "demands" and being "controlling."

If you make them about YOU, and what YOU need, then they are "boundaries of personal integrity."

Example:

"I forbid you to see OM" = CONTROLLING

"I can't live in an open marriage" = BOUNDARY

"You need to check in with me every day, and give me your cellphone bill!" = CONTROLLING

"In order to feel safe in our reconciliation, considering your recent affair, I need to know that you're no longer talking or texting him by having the cellphone bill come to me for awhile" = BOUNDARY

"You can't talk to me that way!" = CONTROLLING

"I like ME too much to allow myself to be spoken to so disrespectfully. Please come back when you've calmed down, and we can talk further." = BOUNDARY

Make sense?

It's also HOW you say it. It should come across as something you HATE to have to even ASK for, and that you'll COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND if she doesn't feel she can do it, but hey -- this is what I need right now. Let me know."

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Later tonight she has been saying things while on the laptops like, "I'm talking to my sister right now on chat." or "I'm talking to XYZ person on FB now." I wasn't even asking.

John,

A much better way to set this up is thru a keylogger, that she has on her computer and she KNOWS is on her computer, as part of her transparency agreement. You don't want to put yourself in the role of "daily traffic cop," because it doesn't build ATTRACTION. It makes you the dad/cop/authority figure, and last time I checked, chicks didn't fantasize about their dads.

It's the same with online accounts. You don't want to set it up where the formerly-wayward spouse says "Here, you can sit with me and we can look at my Facebook and Yahoo account anytime you want to." Cuz then you have to ASK, you're right back in that role of traffic cop, and lather-rinse-repeat. Instead, you want them to just give you all their usernames and passwords, so YOU can check them, anytime you want to, without even having to tell them or ask them.

Make sense??

Puppy

[john28]

I hope your position at the MC appt will be FIRM with this, John. This isn't about "control," this is about a perfectly reasonable (considering her multiple past infidelities) boundary that YOU need in order to be willing to remain in the marriage with her.

Yes, and I don't even believe I'll have to be firm about it. Within 15 minutes of meeting our MC for the first time, she was preaching transparency and how important it was in a situation like this. I don't think I'll have to do much talking on the matter.

It was under my conditions that she start next Wed with transparency. Why? Because she's said 1,000 times she doesn't want to do it and it is controlling and manipulative, father fiture, sh*t like that. She doesn't get it and I knew she wouldn't. She'd just think it would be another way I'm trying to control her. So, I told her to talk to the MC about it on Wed to understand more why it is important, so she can feel andn know it's not me being manipulative and controlling.

[john28]

Today hasn't been too exciting really. W couldn't sleep last night (because she napped from 5:30pm - 800pm) and was up late in bed reading, so she slept till noon today. I got up around 9 and played with S4, then went out and mowed the lawn. Something occured to me when I went out to mow.

In the past, I never would have gotten up and taken the initiative to mow the lawn this early. I see that I'm changing into the man I want to be. And, it's not just the lawn, it's everything. Keeping the house clean, taking care of S4. Stuff like that.

Additionally, I thought about telling W last night that I was going to get up early and mow the lawn. In the past, I would have done that to get some "brownie points" or something to seek her approval and expect to hear something like, "That's a great idea." Sometimes I'd do it. Sometimes I wouldn't. I'm not speaking about just the lawn here, I'm talking about a lot of things I said I would do but never did.

So instead of saying, I took action. I just got up and mowed it and said nothing about it. Later, I asked her if she slept well, and she said yes. She noticed the lawn had been cut, and said, "Wow, you got up early and mowed the lawn? Thankyou - that was nice."

I replied, "Just doing my job."

We all went to the museum today and spent a few hours there. But before we went I had to return some of her clothes that didn't fit at the store and she was with me, so we decided to shop. I hate the store that these clothes came from, so I told her she should just by bras and underwear. We went to the section, I picked a few things out for her, and she was picking out underwear asking for my "opinion" as she picked up a few lacy provacative pieces. I just told her, "Yep, those are nice." It was a unique semi-sexual moment that we haven't had in a while.

[john28]

Alright. Need some assistance on this one. I'm not sure how to keep reacting to these types of situations. Below are two thingns that happenend tonight. I think I handled #1 right. #2, I'm clueless.

#1 - She's wearing a skirt. I'm a H with high drive with hasn't gotten any in almost 3 months. I look, comment that she's wearing the new panties that we bought her today. She says, "Yes, wanted to see if they fit alright since they were the smallest." I said, "I'd be intersted in what the others look like too." She proceeds to go get all the new ones and try them on one by one and give me a panty show right in front of me. I don't THINK she meant it sexually, but she is comfortable with me now. Needless to say, it was all I could do to just say, "those look nice... those look great..." without jumping up and pouncing.

#2 - We're spending time together just now 1 on 1 playing a board game, we're finished, I ask if she's tired because I'm going to bed. She says that she'll be to bed in about 30 minutes to wind down that she's not tired. I say that's cool - see you in bed. As I'm walking away she stops and says, "You going to kiss me?" We met in the middle of the kitchen and she puts a long (3-4 second) sweet kiss on my lips. Pretty good one for her.


How SHOULD I have reacted in those situations? They're pretty common in the John househould as of late if I give her good space and have no R talk.

[pinhead]

Sigh. Separated at birth again.

She walks out of our walkin closet with jeans and a leopard print bra. Then puts her top on, while getting ready for work. Very hot. Picked out panties at Victoria Secret yesterday, OMG, too much femaleness in that place for a guy going on 3 months of nothing.

No kissin' yet. But she lets me hold her hand, adjust a wayward bra strap, and other things that get things going...

I used to think I was a low drive guy, because we had a SSM. Now I realize that I'm definitely not LD!

I think you did fine. Compliments aren't out of order, just don't come across as melty man. And what were you going to do, turn down a kiss?

I think you've found your nuts...