WAH and LBW separated and dark

[LauraOh]

I am being served tomorrow morning my H informs me.

I am still pretty "happy" inside (Ok, had a bit of a meltdown yesterday--did he HAVE to do this to us on the first day of S14's school--he just entered 9th grade!)

It does NOT mean that you don't want your H. I want my H, I am ANGRY at his behaviour, and I am still very much "happy" about a lot of things--good friends, plans for my future either way, a beautiful home that will be ALL MINE to do what I want etc.

Right now I am very OK with whatever happens--I see good things coming either way. So, with that in mind, what is to be "morose" about??lol. There will be challenges either way, and there will be good things either way. Not a bad spot to be in!

Your parents need to see the "Ok" you. Listen, this wasn't what YOU wanted--but we live in a society where just one person can do this--not YOUR FAILURE!! I personally am so at peace about this because I did do "the work". I worked my BUTT off and no one can make me "feel guilt" about it.

Another benefit of doing "the work". You are not as vulnerable to outside opinion--no one on the planet can "make me feel like a failure".

No one!

[DumpedforMIL]

I am being served tomorrow morning my H informs me.

(((lauraoh))) i'm so sorry to hear that.
you did a lot of work and you maintain a positive attitude throughout. i know you will be okay with or without your h.

I am still pretty "happy" inside (Ok, had a bit of a meltdown yesterday--did he HAVE to do this to us on the first day of S14's school--he just entered 9th grade!)

we're all entitled to a meltdown. but your quota for the month is done, my friend.

It does NOT mean that you don't want your H. I want my H, I am ANGRY at his behaviour, and I am still very much "happy" about a lot of things--good friends, plans for my future either way, a beautiful home that will be ALL MINE to do what I want etc.

yes, i still want my h. i wish he would come out to play squash. i'm almost at a state where i just want us to be friends .. no hard feelings. i understand that he's mad but it takes so much negative energy to stay mad at someone. can't you put it aside for one night and have fun? who wants to live like that? it's so depressing and that's so not me right now.

btw, are you taking that big flat screen tv as well?

Your parents need to see the "Ok" you. Listen, this wasn't what YOU wanted--but we live in a society where just one person can do this--not YOUR FAILURE!! I personally am so at peace about this because I did do "the work". I worked my BUTT off and no one can make me "feel guilt" about it.

i wanted my family to see that i was genuinely "OK". the last few times i went home, it was because i was having a meltdown over the d. for once, i want them to see me bright and happy.

i hope you stick around and help me through my stitch. but i will be thinking of you.

[LauraOh]

I admit it! I want the stuff!!lol. There isn't much stuff to want, and I am thinking about that TV mostly, but darn--I do want it!!

Oh, and the dishwasher in my garage--it is a beaut! I should have it installed I think....make sure it "stays".lol.

You're in a good place if you just want to be friends and no hard feelings. You are so right--anger takes a lot of energy and it isn't at all productive. I will be friends with my H some day--I am just not built to have bitter feelings forever. Right now I am giving him a bit of a show. I don't know if getting angry is a bit counterproductive, or a 180 for MY sitch.

All I know is, I see all the "signs" that my H is in misery. I feel sorry for him. I don't have any real, lasting anger at him at all.

But I feel my sitch is not "over" by a long shot. After I blew up at him he went, on his own, to the C!

It's a weird, weird journey--I'm still hanging on!!lol.

[DumpedforMIL]

But I feel my sitch is not "over" by a long shot. After I blew up at him he went, on his own, to the C!

It's a weird, weird journey--I'm still hanging on!!lol.

good attitude. even coach told me that the real db work didn't begin until he was served.

it isn't over until it's over. at least he's going to C.

[DumpedforMIL]

journaling ..

spent a bit of time hanging out in the 'infidelity' forum for a bit. learned some pretty interesting stuff from allen a.

i was quite careful over there because i've learned the basic no-nos:
- no mind-reading
- cannot control someone else's behavior

the good news is, it doesn't stop me from GAL-ing. i still exercise, play squash. boy, are my muscles sore! i need to eat a banana or something after.

i got a little discouraged because i finally learned something about my sitch. my h has to put his big boy pants on. but how do you encourage this? you cannot control someone else's behaviour. so you can't force him to put his big boy pants on.
what is an effective way of modelling 'big boy' behavior?

all i'm doing is working hard and playing hard. i can work hard and play hard. still waiting for h to complete his financial statements for our sep agreement. once that is done, then i'll call him up for a meeting.

y'know, at the end of the summer, if i am making progress on me, is it okay for me to reward myself with a new squash racquet?

my thread is a bit quiet. rightfully so. things have been pretty calm but forrest, where are you? i need a new challenge!

[Forrest Gump]

"my thread is a bit quiet. rightfully so. things have been pretty calm but forrest, where are you? smile i need a new challenge!"

You still have the outstanding challenge of the statement. Me being quiet was also kinda part of the challenge. I was busy too. We are getting ready to go on vacation so this week has been kinda hectic.

Anyway....

"six months ago, everybody recommended that i take up yoga but when i was in my crazy state, yoga was NOT helpful. it was so non-social that all i thought about was my sitch. now that i'm in a better frame of mind, i can probably go back to yoga and focus on the poses rather than just go through the motions."

GAL.. as you have seen is different for everyone. This is why I shy away from giving you specific things to do. The main reason I focus on people interacting with the "admiring public" is because it makes you aware of your surroundings. For some reason when we walk thru this.. if we take a step back and look around it is easy to "see" other people in need. All it takes is for one of those people to "do something nice back".. and it sets in motion a change. As you have seen it builds your self worth back up. It also enhances your "compassion". If you focus and hone this tool.. it will serve you well in the months.. years.. to come. It is hard to get someone to believe they are worth "something" when all this crap is floating around.

They have to find out "on their own".

"i'm not good at comprehension. but i'll give it a try."

What more can I ask for?

"but i am still here. still posting."

But again.. Why?

To me.. most people "here" don't "need" someone to walk them thru. They need someone to push them to do better and think about things in a new way. The only reason you are still posting is that you have a tiny bit of hope.. that keeps pushing to "find the answer". The answer lies within you. It is as simple as that. Who do you want to be?

"somehow i feel like i ended up saving myself but my m is still hanging by a thread."

All this.. starts with saving YOU. It cannot progress.. move forward.. without that. You have to stop acting a fool. You have to think clearly. You have to respond smartly. You can't do that if you do not value YOU. It is that old adage.. "How can someone love you.. if you don't love yourself."

The WAS by "pushing the button" (I am out) sets into motion a situation that will always fail! The reason for that is that both people will react emotionally to the situation.. and it will turn into a miserable hell. It takes "someone" that can "duck, dodge and pull" to just get out alive. It takes "someone" smart.. and prepared.. to "win".. and evoke a change.

One person set this in motion.. why can't one person change the direction?

"i am guilty of not communicating my intentions or what i am trying to achieve."

So.. with your long post.. what do you need to be more clear about?

"i still love my h very much and i realize that my plans to "win" got in the way."

Start your statement with this.

Expand on it slightly.

"maybe he did appreciate it but the 'need to win' turned me into someone else. and not the person he fell in love with."

^^^^ Hint on what to expand on. It needs rephrasing.

"but the vets here convinced me that i needed to work on me first before we can work on saving the m. i figure maybe that was do-able. that route was probably my best bet. little did i know that changing me would have a healing effect on me as well."

Everyone pointed you this way.. cause it has to happen first. Look what it did for you. Lemme say it again.. I could post out exactly what you should do. But you would get it wrong.. until you walk the walk a bit. It is not what you say.. so much. It is HOW you say it. The "opponent" knows you. Maybe even better than you know yourself.

Cupcakes come to mind.

"it isn't over. i can't answer that question.
but in the interim, i'm making a bit of headway. a friend of mine who hadn't seen me since march, met up with me yesterday. she said she noticed that i look alive now. she was so happy to see me smiling again. without telling her what i was doing, she felt the energy in me. so it must be working."

Hmm.. That is some "crazy talk" right there.

"i have to admit, sometimes i think i'm doing better than he is."

The thing is.. to a point.. this is a fantastic thought. You are doing better than him. You have learned something. You are hopefully making yourself a better person. He chose this.. but you are moving forward? Seems kinda cool to me.

Sitting across a table.. with L.. is going to be a testing time. For both of you. Showing up in front of a judge for him to declare you D... is gonna pull the heart strings for both of you. Don't underestimate that.


"well, at this point .. we're not bff."

You can't claim bff.. and then not mean it.

"i don't know what he is and that has me scared."

He has changed. That is what makes you scared. BFF's are not scared of change.

"but i wanted to know why he was saying the things he was saying. i wanted to understand where he was coming from."

You hurt him.. he lashed out. Then the "cycle" started.

"i don't want my old marriage. saving my marriage implies that i want my old marriage back. and i don't."

^^^^^ Hint on adding to statement.

BFF and being Married are 2 totally separate things. Always have been.. always will be.

When you can blend the 2 smartly.. then you will have one heck of a marriage.

Work at this from the viewpoint of keeping a BFF for right now.

I will be keeping up from my phone. I will try and post some.. but I loose my fabulous formatting when I do that. So you might just get a bis a$$ wall of text to read.

"methinks the challenges are getting harder and harder."

Why?

Now...

Do Work.

[DumpedforMIL]

You still have the outstanding challenge of the statement.

i think some guidance here. what kind of statement am i trying to come up with? is it like what to say during a conversation with h? or is this a monologue type statement?

Me being quiet was also kinda part of the challenge.

it's a good thing you let me know because i thought you abandoned me here half way. i'm like ... is this where it ends? she saved herself so your job is done?

All it takes is for one of those people to "do something nice back".. and it sets in motion a change. As you have seen it builds your self worth back up. It also enhances your "compassion".

i see what you are getting at. my self-worth is up a bit. not fully yet. i still fall back to my 'oh woe is me' phase.

It is hard to get someone to believe they are worth "something" when all this crap is floating around.

it is when all you see is a marriage on the rocks, selling a home you loved and put work into, fighting over stupid things like lamps and end tables, and then there are the lawyers. ugh ..

The only reason you are still posting is that you have a tiny bit of hope.. that keeps pushing to "find the answer". The answer lies within you. It is as simple as that. Who do you want to be?

some days i have no hope at all. i go from 0 to 5% hope.
i'm still trying to find the answer. rather than try to make an educated guess, i'm choosing to just trust you that the true answer will come in time.

who do i want to be? i want to be a person who isn't afraid to speak up. but when i speak up, i want it to be clear and concise. i tend to dig or have snarky remarks attached to my statements. this has to stop.

the vets have asked me a few times who i am and there are two things that stand out and have never changed about me.
1. i always have people's best interest in mind. i try to help bring out the best in others - it could be with tough love, cheerleading, encouragement, or leading by example. it is something that resonates in my bones. it's my version of "enabling the childhood dreams of others". and it is fun to do and watch.
2. sharing will always be a part of me. even as a child, it would not seem right to be enjoying a bag of mcdonalds fries by myself. i would be giving 3/4 of my fries to everyone. happiness in a bag can be shared and make 10 other kids happy. how cool is that? as an adult, fries are replaced with other things like homemade cupcakes, knowledge, and stories.

You have to stop acting a fool. You have to think clearly. You have to respond smartly. You can't do that if you do not value YOU. It is that old adage.. "How can someone love you.. if you don't love yourself."

in my mind, i can love myself as much as i can but i don't think anybody wants to love me. my h no longer loved me.
yes it is mind reading, but this is what is etched in my brain.

It takes "someone" that can "duck, dodge and pull" to just get out alive. It takes "someone" smart.. and prepared.. to "win".. and evoke a change.

One person set this in motion.. why can't one person change the direction?

because there is so much momentum towards d, heavy resistance against reconcilation, and a desperate need to "win" at all costs that it seems like i'm trying to harness the energy of a hurricane with a butterfly net.

i'm not arguing your point, but i'll let you know my thought process.

because i have the tendency to be think things through process-wise, i'll know the pros and cons, what could go wrong, what our back up plan would be if things do go well, etc. i will think with my brain instead of my heart. i could phrase it smartly .. all with good intentions.

but how do i do this without making him feel emasculated? without making it look like i "won"? because as soon as he goes speechless, then it will appear as if i "won". and then it doesn't matter what i said. all that gets registered is she "won" again and i "lost". not a very manly feeling. this is something i have to be very careful about because although my intentions are good, this ends up being a negative side effect.

i'm going to break my mind reading rule and just say that i feel that he is trying to win at all costs. the only thing that matters is that he wins. if it's friendship that i want, he will make sure i don't get it. if it reconciliation that i want, he will make sure i don't get it. whatever i want, he will make sure i don't get. my rings, my handbag, my sunglasses .. it's all petty and the goal is just for him to win by making sure i don't get what i want.

i guess i'm just doubtful because playing it smart and "winning" throughout my marriage pushed him away. i don't want to be a doormat and let him have his way but i want to 'win' without having to push him away.

"i am guilty of not communicating my intentions or what i am trying to achieve."

So.. with your long post.. what do you need to be more clear about?

when i plan something, i don't tell him the entire details of my thought process. i just say, we need to do this. just do it. don't worry, the end goal is still going to be good. it's like leaving him out of my plans. it's really a trust issue. do i trust him enough that he won't sabotage my plans? and often i don't .. which is why i don't fully communicate my intentions. i think i slowly started to feel a wall between the two of us. and i had to start looking out for me. i could not control him but i had to protect myself in case anything happened. it was that feeling of knowing he didn't have your back. and that feelings grew stronger and stronger. it was so strong at christmas, that it was me vs. them. it wasn't 'us' anymore. i tried my best to keep their best interests in mind. but soon it started to feel like they were taking advantage of my generosity. and i cut that off immediately which came across as me being cold and unwelcoming.

loyalty is a two way street. as soon as i feel like you are taking advantage of my generosity, i will stop until i see some reciprocation. and if i don't, i will continue to shut down. it was probably not the best way to set boundaries but i set boundaries with actions .. not necessarily with words.

"i still love my h very much and i realize that my plans to "win" got in the way."

Start your statement with this.

Expand on it slightly.

i was so focused on doing what *i* felt was right for us that i never even asked 'us' whether it was the right thing for us. i just assumed that it was right. in turn, i left my h behind .. i neglected him.

"maybe he did appreciate it but the 'need to win' turned me into someone else. and not the person he fell in love with."

^^^^ Hint on what to expand on. It needs rephrasing.

i am guilty of not inviting him into my plans for us. it was visible in everything i did. for example, i felt it was important for us to have a clean kitchen so i would spend hours cleaning the kitchen. my intention was to keep the kitchen clean so that i would not have to spend time later to clean it. however, i didn't realize that i was sacrificing quality time together. he would drop hints that he wanted some intimate time together. and i would be focused on washing the dishes that i would push him away.
i missed the signs. and i am sorry. how do i make it right?

It is not what you say.. so much. It is HOW you say it. The "opponent" knows you. Maybe even better than you know yourself.

Cupcakes come to mind.

it's unfortunate that this medium doesn't "tell" you how i am saying things. you can only read what i write. but not how i say it. i agree - the "how i say it" is key.

i don't understand the cupcake reference though.

"i have to admit, sometimes i think i'm doing better than he is."

The thing is.. to a point.. this is a fantastic thought. You are doing better than him. You have learned something. You are hopefully making yourself a better person. He chose this.. but you are moving forward? Seems kinda cool to me.

you are forgetting the second part though. i also tell myself that i can't think this way. it is possible that he's having the time of his life. maybe he has a new woman in his life. and it's all wonderful. i know this isn't a competition. but it's also how i motivate myself to continue doing what works for me and keeping me happy. we're not out of the "fake it until you make it" stage yet. at least, that's not how i see myself. i have to push myself harder. be the best person you can be. be stronger physically, mentally, emotionally. you cannot waver. i need to discover my limits.

Sitting across a table.. with L.. is going to be a testing time. For both of you. Showing up in front of a judge for him to declare you D... is gonna pull the heart strings for both of you. Don't underestimate that.

yes, i understand this.
i know you are preparing me for this. that alone states there was no hope to save my m to begin with. the last thread has been snapped. hope meter reached 0.

i fear the day that i will be signing the divorce papers. i won't know how to react. i could be numb from everything by then that i will have no emotion.

"well, at this point .. we're not bff."

You can't claim bff.. and then not mean it.

when i said that i meant that we are no longer friends at this point. and again, not my choice. just like the d. not my choice.

You hurt him.. he lashed out. Then the "cycle" started.

he also hurt me too. let's not forget that i was also hurt.

"i don't want my old marriage. saving my marriage implies that i want my old marriage back. and i don't."

^^^^^ Hint on adding to statement.

you're right. our old marriage wasn't working for us. i hope that at the end of this, we still consider each other friends.

Now...

Do Work.

my post is all over the place today.
i'm working on my statement.
but i have zero hope now.
it's not even because i discovered something or anything. i stopped snooping because it wasn't good for me mentally.

the way i see things is .. we have zero communication.
he stopped going to squash, despite gaining 30 lbs in early july.

most days, i don't even want to think of a statement because i don't want to face him. what if he is doing great? what if there is a new woman in his life and the reason why he stopped going to squash is because he found a new cardio exercise that he preferred .. the horizontal mambo.

i'd be hurt but that just puts the final nail in the marital coffin and i would look like fool talking about reconciliation and doing the work.

yes, i know .. we are working on me first. it is the only way to get the ball rolling. i am still working on me. still going along with this. zero hope. but maybe there is something you know that i don't. and i'm curious to find out what i am going to learn next.

i will enter my thoughts in a journaling post.

have a great vacation. and thanks for keeping in touch. i get all unstable around the weirdest times.

[Forrest Gump]

The idea behind the statement is to be clear on what you desire or want. It needs to be clear and not emotional. I don't know exactly where we will use it.. but you need to get the thoughts down and committed to memory. We call this preparing.

As far as your self worth.. if something has worked in the past.. what do you do?

When you look at the situation.. really most of the things are an outcome of the event he created. So.. how do you steer things? What happens if you play smart and appear "normal"?

Read your who you want to be again. Why is a statement important?

As per your mind reading statement.. most of the time the 2 parties involved in a stitch switch places.. or roles. They mimic what they dislike. He was the "weak" one and you were always tough. With that said.. have the tables turned? We.. go with what we know.. when we don't know what to do.

We are done working on you... let's work on the stitch now.

You know the basics of saving yourself. Keep them close in your mind.

I look forward to the journal.

[DumpedforMIL]

i started journaling and then i completely lost my statement by hitting the backspace key! i'm going to try and do this again.

i've lost all hope over the last few days. after hanging around the infidelity forum, i realize that my h's immaturity is hard to overcome. how do i hold a conversation with someone who acts like a 7 yr old who only wants his mommy?

i struggled with some residual anger in me. i said that i want to be someone who isn't afraid to stand up for herself. and that statement comes from me being angry at myself for not having spoken up when the bomb was dropped. i let him lead on the d-process. from deciding that we should d to selling the house to dividing the furniture. i'm not angry about the stuff but i'm disappointed in myself that i let myself be a doormat. i should have had a say in how things should go but i decided to let him lead on this. i didn't speak up because at the time, i still wanted my marriage and i was afraid that anything i said would have pushed him further away. i look back now and think .. i should have said something. sometimes i wonder what would have happened if i had fought him on those things. if i had kicked him out of the bedroom. if i fought the sale of the house .. i can't go back and change things. but i can't have this repeated the next time we meet.

i understand that this is a long process and it isn't over yet. i have not been served - although i'm still anticipating this. but there is still a lot of work left to be done.
i'm still working hard on me because i don't feel like i'm out of the fake it until you make it stage. i know i said in my earlier post that i think i'm doing better than he is. but i don't believe that at all. jim collins said that the minute you think you are great, you've lost it. and it's quite true. if i think i'm doing better than he is, it will be easy to slack off and get complacent. i don't want to be in that position. i have to be constantly moving forward - keep the momentum going. don't stop. don't look back. just keep moving forward. keep getting better and better. and i do think .. what if he really does look great? i can't look like the michelin tire man. i know .. this isn't a competition. but in a way, it is. i'm not ahead of him on the detachment curve yet. and that's why i still work on me.

i've seen a lot of people on the boards give up their fight. i completely understand why they would. it's not easy and very draining.
i just received the Last Lecture in the mail today. which reminds me .. what advice would randy pausch give me?

that this journey is full of brick walls. they are there to show me how badly i want this. how badly do i want this?
never give up. the best gold is at the bottom of barrels of crap. what would happen if i didn't give up? if i give up now, i'll never find out. will i?
luck is truly where preparation meets opportunity. hmm .. is this what forrest is preparing me for?

if i feel hopeless - what am i still doing here? why am i still posting?
because i don't know what happens post d. what kind of db work has to be done post d? what does mwd say about post d work? i could be jumping ahead of myself but i'm a planner. the goal is to be okay at the end of this. so what steps do we take to get there? i've GAL-ed. it works for me. i pre-occupy myself with personal development work. i have to keep this up otherwise, i'll fall back into that toilet bowl.

The idea behind the statement is to be clear on what you desire or want. It needs to be clear and not emotional. I don't know exactly where we will use it.. but you need to get the thoughts down and committed to memory. We call this preparing.

my mood has been all over the place these days - making it difficult to come up with a good, non-fingerpointing, non-emotional statement.

luck is where preparation meets opportunity. so let's take a first pass at a statement, shall we?

<statement>
it took one word "divorce" to make me take a good hard look in the mirror and understand the damage that i did to our marriage. i now realize that i was so focused on doing what *i* felt was right for us that i became a totally different person - not the person you fell in love with, not the person you married. i didn't like who i became as well. you were patient with me and i missed all the signs. i'm sorry for pushing you aside and neglecting your needs. i wish there was a way for me to make it right.
during our time apart, i have rediscovered the old me. the one who loves to work hard and play hard. life is fun again and i want to continue to live life to the fullest before the reaper comes for me. despite what happens between us, i am determined to find a way to be happy, and i would really love to be happy with you, but if i can't be happy with you, then i'll find a way to be happy without you.
</statement>

how's that for a statement, forrest? the part in bold summarizes how i feel.

As far as your self worth.. if something has worked in the past.. what do you do?

talk to my mom. watch the last lecture.
you really have no idea how big of an impact the last lecture had on me.
it truly kicked me in the butt to get up and walk. this sitch isn't the only thing in life. it's a part of my life but it isn't my entire life. so just because the marriage is over, it doesn't mean that my life is over. go find out what those other parts of my life are like.

When you look at the situation.. really most of the things are an outcome of the event he created. So.. how do you steer things? What happens if you play smart and appear "normal"?

instead of throwing a tantrum on this ship, i could get off the ship if i don't like the direction it's been steered in. and i could go in an entirely different direction that suits me.

if i have to stay with this ship, and i could steer it by being prepared and figure out where the icebergs are. this is what i've always done.

Read your who you want to be again. Why is a statement important?

i want to a person who isn't afraid to speak up. the statement is important because it says what my boundaries are. i have had problems setting boundaries in my marriage.

As per your mind reading statement.. most of the time the 2 parties involved in a stitch switch places.. or roles. They mimic what they dislike. He was the "weak" one and you were always tough. With that said.. have the tables turned?

am i becoming the WAS? i'm still tough. i guess i hate waiting around and doing nothing. that's why i keep focusing on me. i can't control the sitch. i can only control me. so what do i do? work on me.

We are done working on you... let's work on the stitch now.

can i work on myself in parallel? i don't want to drop any of my activities .. i'm keeping my changes.

but what does working on the sitch involve?

post-journal ...
my mom finally broke the news to my dad.
she told him that we have been physically separated for some time now.
she also told him that i chose not to move home at this point. it wasn't the right time to.
he didn't react negatively but i'm sure he will let me have it some other time.

i've started to ween myself off the intel because it was really messing me up emotionally and mentally.
checking on stuff made my heart pound a million beats per second and i hated that feeling.
i was torturing myself. i followed coach's advice to identify the source of this and stop it.
these were the snakes on my brain. it feels so much better to just let it be. like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders.
this is a huge step for me because as you know, i've harped on how infidelity was a dealbreaker for me. it still is. at this point, i can't let this ruin all of the work we've done.

[Forrest Gump]

Keep in mind that thee is not much you could have said when the bomb was dropped that would have made a difference. It typically is not the time to say anything. The other person is just not listening. It is at times just time to walk away and say nothing.

Letting him lead during the bomb allows them to take control. Which is good to a point. Don't beat yourself up for not doing anything.

As far as your statement.. it looks good. Except for the words you bolded. The idea is to not be emotional at all. You define your faults and leave it at that. You don't talk about the future.. or any plans you have. By stating that you will move on.. you imply that you are still holding on. You show your hand.

So.. with that said.. how would you create an opening to use your statement?

Sorry my posting is limited but typing this out on my phone is not great fun. I will be back home soon though.