Ok, broke a whole bunch of DR/DB "rules" but followed the most important one; if something isn't working, try something else.
I had ignored two voicemails from W in the day while she was at work. Then I took my Ds over for sprinkler fun and grilling at my sister's house. W kept calling, getting more panicked. I should have answered her, after an email and a 3rd voicemail, I called her at work. She was in a panic over what might have happened to me and the girls, she had left work, and went home.
So after dinner was done, we headed home, and the W and I put the girls to bed, then went outside to talk. I started it off by telling her that the "venting/raging" she did earlier in the day was not appropriate and wasn't going to happen again; that she needed to talk to a professional or a good friend instead of doing that to me, especially since we need to have a good working relationship to coparent effectively.
She apologized sincerely, and then we started talking about why she freaked out when she couldn't get a hold of me. I told her that I didn't appreciate the lack of trust, and that I wasn't going to have her pulling me on an electronic leash. She just gets panicked about our daughters, and needs to cope with it. I understand the panic, and looking back, I shouldn't have ignored her voicemails. That was immature.
Then she kept talking about her feelings, and although I tried my best to validate, I also wanted to be honest and use some tough love. She really had this idea of the "Promised Land" when she moves out, and the reality bites. So we talked a lot about that, and she realizes I'm not trying to be vindictive, and I realize she's really just scared, not trying to screw me over.
Somehow we started talking about when we first met etc. And how we got here. And then a really startling admission from her; It really isn't me, and it isn't another man. She has so many self-esteem issues, most stemming from her relationship with her mother. She said "How can I love someone if I can't love myself? And how can I love myself if my own mother didn't love me?" She's 36, and has never found a way to deal with this. And hopefully she will; a combination of our separating and some counseling. She has a really hard road a head of her.
And it explains so much of our relationship; why I pulled away. The more love and attention I gave her, the more threatened she felt, and she pulled away, diverting her attention to our daughters. And as I was neglected, I pulled away, in a self-fulfilling prophecy reinforcing her lack of worth. Really sick, and so sad. She said she really loved me when we married, but couldn't love anyone right now.
And her biggest worry is passing this self-esteem issue to our two daughters. Told her that unlike her mother, she is very expressive of her love to our daughters; she has flaws as any mother does, but they both know she loves them soo much. They'll be fine. Now if she finds a way to accept herself, and be happy, she'll be a better/happier mother. But if not, they'll be fine.
We talked about the upcoming separation, and set some specific dates for that as well as resolving our dog's home. She's going to look at the 1BD apt this week, while trying to find out how far down the waiting list she is on the other apt complex. We discussed how to divvy up some of the household stuff, and even talked about what to do with the holidays, at least this year.
I also said that I'll try and do a better job of saying yes when I mean it, and telling her that I need some time to think about an issue before making a decision.
At this point, we had been talking for 3 hours, and both went to bed. She had another quick panic attack, and I helped talk her through it. Neither of us slept really well, but when she was leaving for work and I was getting ready as well, I gave her a hug, just a friendly hug that she returned, and told her that she'll be okay, she can get through this.
Now I'm really not focusing at all on DBing in the sense of getting her to come back. There are bigger issues; her mental health/balance, coparenting, etc. Reconciliation just can't happen without some serious counseling on her part. And one relief is that despite my neglect, that didn't kill our old M. It sped it to an early demise, but there was no way it was going to last with her issues.
I'm still going to do my GAL and 180s. But although I can improve, and I've made mistakes, I'm really pretty happy with myself. I'll have to think about why I was attracted to someone so flawed, flaws that deep down I knew when we were dating. Something in that attracted me. Hopefully my IC will be able to help me find the answers.
I'm so happy about my dieting and exercise, and since that's one of my reclaimed values, I'll keep on with them. Same with my faith. But it really hits home that all these changes are for me.
I think what attracted you to the flaws, Men are FIXERS!!! I have always dated and even my first wife dealt with issues from her childhood, these issues, we men, cannot fix. My current W has been in counseling since she was 9, 20 years total. She lost her mother to cancer and has not really dealt with it completely. I do believe that these people who have "baggage" can still be in R's and work on themselves but that is for them to figure out, not us.
I am reading the Father Connection which stresses the importance of how kids deal with single parents vs. their parents staying together. So much can happen to children that never get addressed or they never heal from. Those issues follow them the rest of their lives. The only thing they can do is find a way to hide it or heal it.
Pinhead, my W deals with self-asteem issues as well, but from my guesses not as severely as your W. You're right, IC will help her. And remember, despite all of what she says - she does love you.
Last edited by john28; 08/09/1003:53 PM.
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
John, if I knew that, it'd be so much easier. She says she loves me as a friend, and I know that she truly cares about me, but love? LOVE? I don't know. And I don't know that I can wait the years she'll need to figure out.
It doesn't make it any easier. My wife said last she still loves me. I never got the ILYBINILWY line but I got similar "it's not you its me" crap.
So my wife and I still love each other and still getting a D because she can't decide if she wants to be M or not. I think it would be easier if she didn't love me.
Me 44, W 39, S 6, D 6, M 21 Bomb June 18, 2010 I filed D July 20, 2010 W filed counter suit Aug 2 Rings came off Aug 5, 2010
Re-reading Robx's thread is so useful. He rarely gave up hope, always stuck to his values, and acted upon them, not his emotions. I have to keep these all in mind when I feel the urge to give up and run away.
I love my wife. I honor my commitments, I want to make this relationship work.
She just gets panicked about our daughters, and needs to cope with it. I understand the panic, and looking back, I shouldn't have ignored her voicemails. That was immature.
I'm sorry to disagree here, but I think if she wants a divorce, she has to get used to you not responding to most (if any) of her calls except to arrange drop-offs and pickups and things like that.
She was panicked because she was losing control of the situation. Same way you felt when you figured out you cannot control her.
Quote:
And it explains so much of our relationship; why I pulled away. The more love and attention I gave her, the more threatened she felt, and she pulled away, diverting her attention to our daughters. And as I was neglected, I pulled away, in a self-fulfilling prophecy reinforcing her lack of worth. Really sick, and so sad. She said she really loved me when we married, but couldn't love anyone right now.
Feeling dramatic?
Here's another way of explaining the same thing:
As your marriage matured and you had kids, you two forgot how to do the romance dance, and you two stopped dating each other... pretty much all of the time. You were stuck in a rut.
Relax, that stuff happens.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
I don't know. Yes it's dramatic. But after our first kid it wasn't like we forgot the romance, it was unwanted by her. I tried, and never could get the time of day from her. Then when she tried, I was a spoiled child and turned my back on her.
Last night she said that she didn't really know me anymore. And it's true; we know things about each other, but that intimacy is gone. And the things we "know" we really don't; they're just strong impressions from our past.
Any future R past just coparenting will really mean starting over from scratch, dating, and finding out if we really still like each other. Ignoring as much of our past and history, and seeing if there's any real attraction between us.
