Not sure where to start, or end. WAW?

[john28]

When you've asked your W for password to FB, etc., have you gave yours to her? You see, if she has nothing to hide...then there would be no reason for her to withhold a password.

Yes, I've done exactly that. I actually wrote all my stuff down and handed it to her and walked away. She still is "considering" giving me hers. She says that that by me wanting those passwords, I'm being controlling, acting like her father, snooping on her, etc. She doesn't like that. However, I think she does understand how it can be important to building trust, so she's heavily considering it. We have a MC session today. I'm going to bring it up then, because I know this MC is a DB fan. This MC has quoted several DB saying on her blog. I know she'll understand transparency as the ONLY way to rebuild trust.

Are you thinking about what your boundaries will be?

Yes.
1. Transparency on both our parts.
2. Explicit and immidiate confirmation if the OM contacts her.
3. No more name calling.
4. Will not invalidate feelings with arguments. Even if there is a disagreement, the words, "You are stupid, you shouldn't feel like that, etc" will not be tolerated.
5. ...I'm sure there are more.

Good job at not caving when you saw her nude! I know that must have been very difficult. Now, here's a word of warning, at some point she will probably use sex to see that she still can use that as her tool to control you. If you are strong enough to have the attitude of "Thanks but no thanks", that will show her that you are in control of yourself and that ML will not be a "controlling tool" in your M.

Well, I WANT to believe you! Believe me! I do! But, she has zero sex drive always. If I counted on her to initiate sex, even when we're having an awesome M, we'd have it once a month at best. I agree that it may be used as a tool at some point. But, I'll be honest, saying NO to sex would be the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life after this drought.

[john28]

I forgot to mention something happened at dinner last night that really pissed me off.

We were making dinner together (I've never made dinner in the past, mostly because I'm a sucky cook). Her phone rang and it was her girlfriend and mutual friend of ours that's been having some problems. She went out on the back porch to talk to her, and left me with the food halfway cooked. Well, I continued to cook!

When she came back in, it was nearly done, just some finishing touches needed to be done. She grabbed a spoon out of the drawer and went to stirring the food - kind of like completely taking over the task I was doing. It made me angry, and made me feel like she was belittling me right then and there because she was "better" at the task.

I asked her what she was doing. She said, "You always use the wrong spoon on this pot. The one you are using is way too hard and can scratch the pot. I tell you that every single time!"

What the F! I'm not a master cook here! I was doing my best! I made the whole meal there, while she jabbed on the phone, then she has the nerves to tell me I did it wrong? Angry!

So, I tell her, "You know, I don't like it when you come and take over a task like this from me. I was doing this myself, and then you came in and took it all over. That makes me feel like I can't contribute to this family, and it makes me feel belittled."

"Well if you wouldn't have used the wrong spoon then maybe I wouldn't have to do that," she said.

I wanted to knock the [censored] out of her right then and there. I swear. Lucky, I'm not a fighter. I told her, "Do not invalidate my feelings. I was trying to tell you how I felt."

She just gave me a laughable look at my words and continued on.

I walked away before I blew up.

That's just the kind of stuff I've been dealing with our entire M. If she thinks she can do something better, she just takes over and moves me out of the way. She even read Mars/Venus (well, Audiotape) and that's one of the KEY things you don't do! Ugh.

Just had to vent.

[Steve McQueen]

I wanted to knock the [censored] out of her right then and there.

PLEASE SEEK ATTENTION FOR THIS ANGER ISSUE. ASAP.
considering hitting a woman is unacceptable and devoid of intelligence.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

When you've asked your W for password to FB, etc., have you gave yours to her? You see, if she has nothing to hide...then there would be no reason for her to withhold a password.

Yes, I've done exactly that. I actually wrote all my stuff down and handed it to her and walked away. She still is "considering" giving me hers. She says that that by me wanting those passwords, I'm being controlling, acting like her father, snooping on her, etc. She doesn't like that. However, I think she does understand how it can be important to building trust, so she's heavily considering it. We have a MC session today. I'm going to bring it up then, because I know this MC is a DB fan. This MC has quoted several DB saying on her blog. I know she'll understand transparency as the ONLY way to rebuild trust.

Look, John: transparency (and, more importantly -- the no-contact that it enforces) is either a dealbreaker or it's not. It's either a Boundary of Personal Integrity for you or it isn't.

If it's not, then DROP IT -- you're just pissing her off.

If it IS, then every day that you allow to go by without her being transparent with you, you are giving your tacit approval to her secretive behavior. And quite possibly to her continued infidelity.

You need to decide which it's going to be, and I mean TODAY. Personally, I would bring it up in MCing, and if she refused, then stand up, politely thank the MC for their time, but say "If my wife is not going to be honest with me -- and with you, in these sessions -- then I don't see any reason to waste my time here," and I would leave.

But that's just me.

Puppy

[john28]

I wanted to knock the [censored] out of her right then and there.

PLEASE SEEK ATTENTION FOR THIS ANGER ISSUE. ASAP.
considering hitting a woman is unacceptable and devoid of intelligence.

I wasn't being serious. I'm not an angry person. Never have been. I never even yell. I've only yelled maybe 6 times in our whole M. I was just trying to convey my frustration to everyone here, and probably did so badly.

[gucci loafer]

When she came back in, it was nearly done, just some finishing touches needed to be done. She grabbed a spoon out of the drawer and went to stirring the food - kind of like completely taking over the task I was doing. It made me angry, and made me feel like she was belittling me right then and there because she was "better" at the task.

I asked her what she was doing. She said, "You always use the wrong spoon on this pot. The one you are using is way too hard and can scratch the pot. I tell you that every single time!"

What the F! I'm not a master cook here! I was doing my best! I made the whole meal there, while she jabbed on the phone, then she has the nerves to tell me I did it wrong? Angry!

So, I tell her, "You know, I don't like it when you come and take over a task like this from me. I was doing this myself, and then you came in and took it all over. That makes me feel like I can't contribute to this family, and it makes me feel belittled."

"Well if you wouldn't have used the wrong spoon then maybe I wouldn't have to do that," she said.

I wanted to knock the [censored] out of her right then and there. I swear. Lucky, I'm not a fighter. I told her, "Do not invalidate my feelings. I was trying to tell you how I felt."

She just gave me a laughable look at my words and continued on.

WAY too feminine on your part. NOT an attractive trait. You are reading too many books and thinking too much about YOUR feelings. Who cares about YOUR feelings? ONLY YOU. Your wife cares about HER feelings. Wise men realize and understand that. Stop talking about "your feelings." No matter how much you read on that it doesn't work on women the way you went about it...



You should have said..."you are RIGHT honey, I am sorry. I DO always use that spoon and I know it irritates you that I always forget that. I am sorry. I know you don't want the pots scratched. Good thing we have at least one good cook in the family.... (ALL SAID HAPPILY)





You would have felt better, she would have felt better AND she WAS right. Why would you want to use a spoon that scratches the pots AND then get mad at her when she brings it up...? Why do you constantly forget that? It makes her FEEL like she is the mom and you are the kid..... NOT GOOD FOR ROMANCE...


Stop being so sensitive. It is a feminine trait and turns women off when their man is too much on his feminine side.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

You should have said..."you are RIGHT honey, I am sorry. I DO always use that spoon and I know it irritates you that I always forget that. I am sorry. I know you don't want the pots scratched. Good thing we have at least one good cook in the family.... (ALL SAID HAPPILY)

Bullshit. Why would he be HAPPY that he's being belittled and disrespected by his own wife, in his own home??

I agree, there are times to use the "Let them go" approach, esp. when one is talking about the MARRIAGE OVERALL ("You're right, I agree, maybe we're NOT right for each other ...."). But NOT for individual actions of disrespect. Allowing these things to happen on a day-to-day basis will eat away at what's left of an already-beleaguered betrayed spouse's self-esteem.

Puppy

[PMA_Baby!]

I agree w Pup.

I would have said "Do you want to try that again? That approach wasn't very respectful. After all I am the one cooking dinner..."

We are asking him to define boundaries. So why wouldn't demanding RESPECT be one of them???

That should be one of the first RULES/BOUNDARIES defined in any R.

PMA

[TimeHeals]

Yeah, I can see both sides of this:

1. Scratching up non-stick pans and pots by using the wrong spoons and such is a way to dammage your cookware.

2. The way she said it, however, begs the question... is a pot or a pan really that important that you would actually be aggressive over it? You can buy new pots and pans. It's only stuff. I can guarantee you that if your marriage doesn't make it, cookware is going to seem relatively unimportant.

I see two wrongs:

1. John, you need to not use things like metal spoons on non-stick cookware. Just do it and stop making excuses.

2. Mrs John, I know you feel like John doesn't listen to you, and this is why you are frustrated, and it's OK to tell him that if you can do it like an adult. If you lash out, you are acting like a child, and you are far too old now to be acting like a child.

[pinhead]

Wow, now that's what I call a test. I can't say that if my wife did the same to me I wouldn't cave. Hell, I know I would cave. Good on you for having the courage to resist what had to be an unbelievable temptation.