She's in MLC, but I was weak. Now what?

[crushednstuck]

Hey Eric, Cat, Lance and and all other sages,
I've had these questions posed to me by another wise member of this forum, however, I'm not sure I have these answers.
Who doesn't want to be more self assured - especially during a crisis? My priority is to be the best Dad I can be. To create a legacy for my kids to emulate. I don't want to be remembered for a beautiful home and weekends inside Home Depot.
I don't have dreams. I try to make the most of what is available daily. I am realizing all the trips in Outside Magazine I covet are likely now out of my reach. How do I balance my personal needs with those of my kids?
I don't consider myself selfish, but I have alot of other things to do before submitting to the status quo.
More about me...
My friends turned on me to advance their own social agendas when graduating to high school. I'm still pissed off about that. I was too skinny and self conscious to play football, but have spent the intervening years getting bigger and playing violent sports as an outlet for the rage. I'm mad. Always have been. Why don't f#ckers just follow the rules? I'm 42 and prefer metal to all other music. I have the capacity to love alot, but I don't trust. I am intensely loyal though once commmitted. It just takes some time to get there. I think I intimidate people with my physical presence sometimes.
I've earned an MBA and am employed by a great conservative company, I do the suit thing very well, but am uncertain about my path. I make a living with numbers, but am inspired by using my hands to make stuff - landscaping, furniture, art. My misgivings about my job have prevented me from being truly financially successful, but I do OK by many standards.
That should begin to color the picture a bit..

[MHL]

CNS,

Let me first commend you for being here and wanting to save your marriage despite the pain you are suffering right now.

Men tend to be more action oriented and it feels right to be doing something to try to "fix" the situation. Also given what you have said about working with your hands, doing something is going to be a better feeling like you are doing something.

Lets get to work.

I am going to poke at you to get some more info out of you and also make you think about things, some of it may be uncomfortable but neccessary. These are not 2X4's, you know those when you get them.

As I see it you have 2 things to "work" on as you have kids. Obviously you have to work on YOU, which is really what DBing is all about, but you have to interact with your wife simultaneously while working on you. No kids in the picture you would probably detach, go dark and work on you until she was ready. Thats not the case so you need to make sure that your interactions with your wife don't further deteriorate the situation.

Okay lets take working on you, this is going to feel like your working on the Marriage but it is more about peeling the onion that is CNS. You have given some good background info on yourself, childhood, and relationship with your wife. This will be an easy one for you because I can tell you have already done some of the internal work.

While you may have identified some life issues above they may or may not have contributed to the downfall of the M. You want to work on the things that your wife preceives as marital complaints about you.

If I were to sit down with your wife and were to ask her what her marital complaints were/are about you, What would she say?

Be honest, don't defend yourself. After you write them down re-read what you wrote and rate them two different ways.

First rate them in the order that she would rate them #1 would be her greatest complaint about you, #2 would be her second greatest complaint and so on.

Second, rate them in the order that they "sting" you....#1 would be the complaint that you feel you are most guilty of , #2 the next one and so on. You get it right? Now add the 2 scores for the complaints.

The lowest scoring complaints need to be looked at first. Don't beat yourself up over this exercise, this is just to identify things that need to be looked at in YOU first.

I hate long posts so I will break this up.

[MakingProgress]

Just one point re the above. It's very important to identify these issues, but in a million years I never would have known about the validation thing without doing research and I think that was high on my wife's list. I would have missed that entirely if all I did was self examination because I thought I was solving problems and being encouraging. I didn't realize I was doing something "wrong."

[MHL]

Now for the poking some things you may want to think about while doing the little exercise above.

I am realizing all the trips in Outside Magazine I covet are likely now out of my reach. How do I balance my personal needs with those of my kids?

Why are the trips out of reach, CNS these are your dreams, wants and desires. The ONLY reason they are not possible is because you do not think they are possible.

Your personal needs come before the needs of your kids depending on what they are.

Do you want your kids to pursue their dreams? DUH

Would you ever tell your D or S not to go after being an astronaut, doctor, teacher, BMX dirt biker, whatever they wanted?

That is what you are communicating to them by not going after your dreams. You want to go on an African Safari, great go for it, you may never get there but you will have tried. Don't you want to instill that spirit in your kids.

I've earned an MBA and am employed by a great conservative company, I do the suit thing very well, but am uncertain about my path. I make a living with numbers, but am inspired by using my hands to make stuff - landscaping, furniture, art. My misgivings about my job have prevented me from being truly financially successful, but I do OK by many standards.

More poking, You've earned an MBA, gotta use it right??? says who?? Don't like job or don't love your job could impact other areas of your life.....like your marriage???? Are you wrestling the monster of making enough money versus doing what you really want to do?? Is what you would rather be doing more of a hobby or is it a career desire?

You are asking yourself the right questions......start to answer them.

Forget that your W is not in the picture. You do not need her to pursue these things. You did not pursue them when you had her so what is holding you back now?

Could be pursueing YOUR life is what attracted your W to you in the first place, stop pursueing YOUR LIFE could possibly lead to loosing YOUR WIFE?????

and playing violent sports as an outlet for the rage. I'm mad. Always have been. Why don't f#ckers just follow the rules?

Control issue here, plain as day, you can see that. If everyone played by the rules, like you do, it would all be FAIR, Right????

Wrong. and you know that....then why are you really Mad????

Peel the onion.

[Mach1]

Hey Eric, Cat, Lance and and all other sages,
I've had these questions posed to me by another wise member of this forum, however, I'm not sure I have these answers.

That is why you are here.....correct ?

Who doesn't want to be more self assured - especially during a crisis?

Traditionally, the people that want to play the Victim...

My priority is to be the best Dad I can be. To create a legacy for my kids to emulate. I don't want to be remembered for a beautiful home and weekends inside Home Depot.

Maybe you should try just being a person first. Spend that time in your SuperDad cape trying to find out who you are. I can tell you that unless you know who you are, you will be nothing for them. The things you list below....That is the "legacy" ?

Your insecurities ?
Your anger ?
Your self consciousness ?

Doesn't sound like a legacy to be emulated to me....

I don't have dreams. I try to make the most of what is available daily. I am realizing all the trips in Outside Magazine I covet are likely now out of my reach. How do I balance my personal needs with those of my kids?

Dreams are yours....and I don't believe you "don't" have them...you are here aren't you ?

Balancing Parenting and career, and personal growth are things Parents do in a healthy relationship. To struggle at times like this is understandable. Truth is, you probably wouldn't even consider that if not for the Bomb....

I don't consider myself selfish, but I have alot of other things to do before submitting to the status quo.

Like what ?

More about me...
My friends turned on me to advance their own social agendas when graduating to high school. I'm still pissed off about that. I was too skinny and self conscious to play football, but have spent the intervening years getting bigger and playing violent sports as an outlet for the rage. I'm mad. Always have been. Why don't f#ckers just follow the rules? I'm 42 and prefer metal to all other music. I have the capacity to love alot, but I don't trust. I am intensely loyal though once commmitted. It just takes some time to get there. I think I intimidate people with my physical presence sometimes.

I may have been more "pissed" about having my social agenda revolve around my friends instead of myself.

Sounds like a victim role to me.

The things you listed there, they are a part of who you are, and you should embrace those things instead of defending those things.

Physical presence ? Those kinds of assumptions will carry a long way in your own mind. Not so much when trying to assess what another person thinks or feels.

I've earned an MBA and am employed by a great conservative company, I do the suit thing very well, but am uncertain about my path. I make a living with numbers, but am inspired by using my hands to make stuff - landscaping, furniture, art. My misgivings about my job have prevented me from being truly financially successful, but I do OK by many standards.
That should begin to color the picture a bit..

Sadly, the picture it starts to paint is a lot of self doubt.

The first step on a long journey is the hardest. Have you taken that step ? I mean really taken that step ?

How is the reading the resources coming along ?



You can take from here, whatever it is that you are looking for.

Truth is ?

Unless YOU decide to become "Unstuck" , you can become that for a lifetime.

These things that you do during your time here, IF you choose to do the work, can have an impact on you for a lifetime.

These are all your choices to make.

Face your demons ?

Stare down the monsters that hold you from truly being you, or choose to remain Crushed and Stuck.

There are no guarantees that you marriage will survive this. I'm not gonna blow sunshine up your skirt there. Just that YOU will come through this a better man.

Read all that you can about MLC, and really get a firm grip on your enemy.

Post to others to gain perspective, and insight to your own situation. Ask questions and really LISTEN to the answers.

If somebody says something that "stings", you might want to look at that inside of yourself.

[ericmsant2]

CN,
To be really honest with you – you really did not answer my questions. I know why but do you. Let me ask you a few more questions before I comment on your post.

If you hit the lotto tomorrow, if your M was totally perfect, what the F would you want in YOUR life?
The first part of your post is a little depressing dude but trust me I get it. Your feeling a little like sh*t. Your post comes across as if you are defeated.

My priority is to be the best Dad I can be.

So is mine dude but really I’m gonna push you here. What happens when the kids are out of the house – then what are your priorities? Who will CS be? Who does the big 6ft CS want to be?

To create a legacy for my kids to emulate.

Have you considered that the legacy could be…..”my Dad was the man – he was happy, strong, confident, understanding, compassionate, he always pushed me to chase my dreams, he rocked!”
Well if you agree with the above, then IMO your quote below does not jive….

I don't have dreams

This quote come off as self defeating. You do have dreams buddy…

I bet one of them is to reconcile with your W. Right? Dig deeper my friend dig a lot deeper.

I am realizing all the trips in Outside Magazine I covet are likely now out of my reach

Why are they outside of your reach? Please don’t tell me your another one of these guys with a crystal ball. One of those guys that knows that he can’t do this or can’t do that. [censored]…what do you think your W wants? I suspect that she wants a dude that can do it all. That can be the best that he can be. That can take the biggest kick in the f’in nuts yet get up and keep going.

I want to tell you that you have to stop projecting the future.
You really DO NOT KNOW what will happen tomorrow. If you do, can you please let me know what numbers I should play in powerball.

How do I balance my personal needs with those of my kids?

You balance them, one day at a time. You do the best you can do. You ALWAYS think about your kids BUT you also need to think about YOU. Look man, I know where you are at. I have 3 kids myself and I live with someone who quite frankly probably cares more about what color she is going to paint her toe nails than of how I feel. I get it dude. It is hard.

You need to find sometime for you. You need to find some time to just do something that puts a smile on your face. If your kids are anything like mine, then they will see your unhappiness. Really ya can’t fake it. Look man, it is okay to be a little down sometimes BUT you need to get up and do something for you. This is the balance that you need. Now, if you are having issues with spending time with your kids that is another convo. How often do you see your kids? What do you do with them when you do see them?

I don't consider myself selfish,

Here is a question that I want you to think about…..what and how do you define selfishness?

My friends turned on me to advance their own social agendas when graduating to high school

Well I don’t call them friend…I call them selfish bastards! Here is the question for you…what kind of friends do you want in YOUR life, in your kids lives?

I'm still pissed off about that.

Did some of that anger come out at your W. Be honest with yourself. Did you lash out sometime or base on something that she did that reminded you of these friends? The anger has go buddy – it is probably going to be one of the hardest thing to do. It is the thing that you need to get rid of FOR YOU.

I have spent the intervening years getting bigger and playing violent sports as an outlet for the rage

Have you ever seen a therapist about this? I ask because…..

I'm mad. Always have been

Was this anger directed at your W? Did she see it? Did you suppress and think it did not show?
[
quote]I don't trust[/quote]
Probably because you are still carrying around hurt from your youth, specifically those friends you mentioned earlier. So did you trust your W? You see, sometime we do not need to accuse our W…sometimes our actions do all the talking. Have you ever asked her a ton of question when she came home from a night out with the girls? Did she feel you trusted her?

I am intensely loyal though once committed

Can you have this commitment to YOURSELF? I mean it is one thing to be soooo committed to someone else..a whole another thing to be committed to YOU. Sometimes as a “codependent” we are so committed to someone else that we lose who we are. We give the other person the power to control our emotions, which not healthy for you or your partner.

Dude you claim to have been around the boards for a while. What are your plans for you? What are you doing for you? What are your interactions like with your W?

[crushednstuck]

Ok MHL, Mach and Eric I'll consider myself poked. It's what I'd expect.
The drama of my last post belied a few beers. But your questions are relevant. I'll try to handle most.
To rate my W's things she'd change about me "more emotional", "connect to me", "share daily events". From my perspective, I need to deal with things head on. I'm a famous procrastinator. I don't like conflict. So Eric any worries about rage directed at spouse are not a concern. I am a gentleman and will never raise a hand to a woman. I've only raised my voice to her recently as this nightmare has unfolded. The anger manifested itself more in passive aggressive ways.
Fear of rejection is big. More than anger, fear has dominated a good bit of my life. I was always worried about disappointing Dad, but that's no longer a concern.
I feel stuck because my W accuses me of living another life; exercising, travelling, etc. She pushed me away with her controlling behavior and I compensated by doing my own thing. When the trauma arrived, we were already pretty well moving apart. Though I didn't see any of this at the time. I worry because the adventurous life I want to lead pulls me away from my W because she's more "indoorsy" than me. I struggle to find ways to connect all of us and still get acceptance. W thinks she's bowing to my needs.
Sorry for the long post, lots to respond to ..

[crushednstuck]

Security. She wants that. She noted she did not feel protected; which I found ironic. At 6'6" and 250lbs I spent a little time bowing up to fend off the would-be suitors. I think when her need to control was overwhelmed by all the simultaneous life events she couldn't control, she was insecure. I wasn't there to step in and recognize her crisis as I was fully engaged in my own stuff.
For me I've dropped some lbs and suffered some injuries that have dented the stand-by fix for success. Getting older sucks. Just when I'm questioning my professional direction and the ego takes a sucker punch by the body's deterioration, W goes for OM. I'm not proud of the fling, but I almost needed the self-esteem boost. Unfortunately, it didn't last as long as the encounter because I know I want my W and family back. She also now doubts all the tours I made without her and my fidelity during them.

[PEI]

Hi CNS,

To rate my W's things she'd change about me "more emotional", "connect to me", "share daily events". From my perspective, I need to deal with things head on. I'm a famous procrastinator. I don't like conflict.

So where is the truth in those statements? Any sting there? Which of these do you want to change for you?

So Eric any worries about rage directed at spouse are not a concern. I am a gentleman and will never raise a hand to a woman. I've only raised my voice to her recently as this nightmare has unfolded. The anger manifested itself more in passive aggressive ways.

I don't want to speak for Eric here, but I'm guessing the passive aggressiveness is exactly what he was getting at. Just because it's not a physical display of your anger doesn't mean it wasn't just as damaging.

Fear of rejection is big. More than anger, fear has dominated a good bit of my life. I was always worried about disappointing Dad, but that's no longer a concern.

Ah, the fear monster ... and his brother, insecurity. Now those dragons are worth slaying. Why do you fear being rejected?

I feel stuck because my W accuses me of living another life; exercising, travelling, etc.

Did you live another life?

She pushed me away with her controlling behavior

So your behaviour was her fault?

I struggle to find ways to connect all of us and still get acceptance.

This sounds like control and external validation all at once... and a bit of a pity party too ...

W thinks she's bowing to my needs.

Did she?

As you've been told, and will be reminded over and over and over and over again ... as often as you need it ... trust me ... , this is the time to focus on what you can control - YOU. Who do you want to be? Who is CNS at his core? What kind of man are you underneath that anger and fear and insecurity? Would you recognize him even if you did see him?

Are you reading the resources yet?

Peace
PEI

[crushednstuck]

Thanks PEI, I guess less real sting and more confusion. What does more emotional mean? Crying more?
Your points are well taken. I'm not a bystander in the M.
I think you may also be right about not recognizing the man I want to be if I saw him. How does that journey begin? Doesn't everyone want to be loved by their kids, financially secure, physically, spiritually and emotionally healthy - and loved by their spouse, family and friends?
I know the things that I want to accomplish and it's too long a list for a lifetime I'm afraid. Even more than that, I don't know if W is willing to be along for a portion or any of the trip. She has said my goals are what separates us because she thinks they don't include her.