I've been reading a lot of the threads this evening and I have a question...
So many posters here share their thoughts that the MLCr is in a tunnel and once or if they make it out then they will recognize all that they had. How often does this really happen? I know that some smart people here have indicated that you should believe none of what an MLCr says and half of what they do - but if while in the tunnel the MLCr finds another and marries them - are they typically happy and do they tend to stay?
My H is so arrogant and full of pride that even if he came out of the tunnel I'm not sure that he would ever admit his losses. Of course this begs the question if he is so arrogant - why would I want him back?:)
I wish I could figure out when he went in the tunnel ~ but I guess it really doesn't matter.
I wish I had more answers to all those questions you have. I think the same way you do with all of this.
I don't know if it helps but the first thing I look at is the OP is just so many steps below the LBS in what I read and what I see in my own sitch. That gives comfort to know that it can't last long. When the rose colored glasses come off, that person is not as attractive at all anymore and if you have been making changes, then you become an even better choice. If they don't face their issues, you may not want them back anyway. So they cycle. Seems just so pointless but you and I won't ever get this unless we go through it. Thank God for that. HB mentions that both she and her H went through it. I can't imagine back to back like she describes. These MLC'rs are unhappy the whole time they go through this. Yes, the new relationships are a drug but then it is "Where is the next new thing?" Then it will wane again and from what I have read they have "failure" in their head every time they lay down at night. What is a common thread is when they hit rock bottom, they begin their journey out of the tunnel for good.
I have been reading AmyC's post because she is so much like my W. It is around 800 pages long but it sure is more of a happy ending. It is the closest thing I have seen so far of what they go through and how their thinking is. I try to read 10 pages or so a day to help perk me back up again. If you find a good MLC book that you enjoy please let me know. I have been noting the books mentioned as I go along and I am going to end up with a huge stack of books that hopefully all won't say the same thing.
As far as your question with when he went into the tunnel? Look back and see when a stressful situation occurred. From what I have read, it is somebody they know dies or stressful job or a move into a different home maybe an illness, car accident with death etc. Common thread on this is there is a trigger that makes their mind go into an automatic-going-to-happen-in-their-midlife-no-matter-what-you-do-mode. They focus on WTH happened to my life up till now and I am going to die and am getting old now panic. Take comfort knowing there is nothing you could have done to prevent this. Then, knowing that being the LBS is a blessing instead of a victim mentality curse, you can improve yourself, feel good about yourself, and be able to handle the curves that life throws you. My faith in God needed to be pumped up. I actually was praying to God to help me grow closer to Him before all of this started. Did not realize He would actually answer that prayer and I would have to do something about it. Sheesh!!
Timelines will be different for everyone. Lance seems to have a handle on it more than most. I look back and figure I am into year 3 of this. (Stressful move and new stressful job from old stressful job for W) I read women are 2-5 years;men 2-10 years. Read hints on if the childhood trauma is deep it takes longer. Saw lots of references to 3-5 years. The thing that kills me is they know something is wrong with them. You can see it in their eyes. They age rapidly. The depression is hanging on to them so tight. Every attempt at getting them help is a push for them to go into more denial and lash out at the one they are closest to. What a slippery slope nightmare for them!!
Sorry so long but just felt like posting to you this morning.
My H is pushing me to sign a waiver so he can buy property. It's a mistake, I know it but one I can't protect him from. The OW in this case will probably throw him out on his ear and take the place. Just as long as my name is not associated with it.
My H is so arrogant and full of pride that even if he came out of the tunnel I'm not sure that he would ever admit his losses. Of course this begs the question if he is so arrogant - why would I want him back?:)
Was he this way before he went in the tunnel? Why did you marry him?
This is a post of mine from Upside's thread:
Quote:
I read this book that Snodderly suggested.
The Pain Behind The Mask: Overcoming Masculine Depression by John Lynch, Christopher T. Kilmarting It explains some of this in much more detail.
This is a review that I wrote on this book, if it helps at all.
There are two things that I want to write down from this book although it gives some great advice and stories. First on Page 6 "Depression is a collection of symptoms that results from some kind of unresolved conflict"
2ND - The Masculine Dilemma :" Not Too close Not Too Far Away" This axiom is for boys with their mother and men with their wives. Many on this board will relate to this with their WH who run to the OW but keep their wives ..... "Not too close not too far away" This also has to do with dependence,independence, and counterdependence.
Basically the other main point of the book is that men tend to hide their depression. (look at the title) Most men are so invovled with masculine tendencies that they overlook their feelings and don't realize they are in pain.
The mask that they hide behind does not permit you to see his real pain. Believe me it is there. As far as how often it happens? My question is does that really matter? Are you going to base your marriage on percentages? If it is 1 out of 100 and you are the 1, how will you know now? If it is 99 out of 100 and you are the 1, is there any difference. I will say that a lot of the marriages that fail it is because the LBS gives up. There are no Guarantees in MLC. You must risk everything in order to succeed. The MLC will more than likely end but it might take a short time and it might take a long time. No one knows how long it will take.
Irish, I found your new thread and was reading it thru and got stuck on page 2. I was able to read most of it tho.
I just wanted to say that I think you are handling all this exteremly well. The talks you have with your son have been fantastic. The fact that you are not running down your H to your S is such a good thing. My first H did that to my kids when we split up and it had a devastating effect on them. So, good for you. I also think that this is so bonding for you and your son. He will grow up to know what kind of man he wants to be and I'm glad you have him now to walk thru this with you..even tho I'm sure it hurts you to see him be hurt by it.
I know this stuff is hard, and you talked about emotionally detaching..I have not figured out how to do that either. How do you stop the thoughts of them? the questions about why, what can I do differently..etc? There are people here who can help with that.
I have found that Life is a journey. Sometimes we encounter really big bumps, deep holes, and gigantic ruts in the road. So, we have to walk around them, and that takes us to places we would not have ordinarliy gone..off the beaten path. And we see and experience some things that change our lives forever. I have always felt that the bigger the detour is, the more I grow, the more I learn. I've actually asked God if He could possibly teach me those lessons without all the pain, but so far He hasn't changed the approach. So, since He knows what's best for me, I just ask Him for his strength, support and guidance to find my way and learn what He is trying to teach me. Sometimes I have to do the lesson over again a couple of times before I figure it out. And then I'm so glad when I move on to the next lesson.
I'm struggling a little right now too. Things are going ok here. My H is being nice, he's trying..we saw a great new MC on Monday and have been using some of the tools for communication he suggested. But for some reason, I had a weird meltdown last night and cried my little heart out to my H. I don't know how it started or what happened, but I mentioned that we couldn't get back in to see this new MC until Aug 25 and then he said that was ok cause we were doing ok, moving ahead..and the next thing I know he's yelling at me to "Get off his ass!!" I felt so hurt and misunderstood, I just caved in and spilled my guts to him about all my fears and confusion. My eyes are still swollen. I spent the whole night laying in bed trying to figure out what was said to get to that point..and then had to take a sleeping pill at 4:00 this morning cuz I couldn't shut off my brain. If the word my H uses to describe himself is "resentment", then mine is "fear"..and I can't seem to get a handle on it.
So..don't feel like the lone ranger. And don't worry..we'll get thru this together, you and I and lots of others on this board. Hang in there Irish..you're a good person.
Alright friends - I am hanging in there through a difficult evening. H contacted oldest D and S and asked them to meet him. Again he chose an open venue - however oldest D wasn't shy. The interaction was apparently tense.
D started questioning: Are you happy Dad? He said - you know in 20+ years in my career this is the first start of the school year where I feel like I've got a handle on things - even working these other part time jobs. D says - do you know why or what's different? He says - not really. She says because you've abandoned all of your responsibilities. You only take care of yourself. She told him she thought his choices were unhealthy, selfish, and hurtful. She continues saying - were you unhappy with how we were a family? He answers her - well, we shouldn't have paid as much for dance lessons and stuff. She said - do you think we would have turned out better kids? He answers her ....well yes, maybe!!!!!!!! Are you f***ing kidding me????? My son is there and his heart just drops. In his mind, Dad isn't happy with us kids. But it continues - S asks his dad - what did you dream about when you were growing up? H says "bball" and "having lots of money". S says - did you ever think about having a family and/or kids? H says - "well, yes I thought I would share my life with someone" - the kids were like - "so....." S says "dad it's embarrassing - I have a new girlfriend and mom's not embarrassing me but whenever we talk about our family it always ends up talking about this situation" H gets defensive and says "your mom is not perfect" - D joins in and says "no she's not and she is the first one that will tell you that - but she has changed and is always trying to change to improve the family situation." H says - I'm not even going to go there!???????? H tells them that he is planning to file for divorce. D asks him if he is in counseling - he says "no it is not needed" She says - weren't you on medication? "not needed"
So the kids come home and I am keeping it together for them. Even though my armpits go numb with anxiety and my heart is broken. But I am on day 3 of NC. H has emailed or texted me 3 times and I've not responded. S has a ball game tomorrow but I told him I wasn't going to go. I need to get things done around the house and I really do not want to see H. Self preservation. I expect the next contact from H will be the arrival of divorce papers or proposal. Once he delivers them - I figure I will take my time. We've been together 28 years so I figure I can take my time with the paperwork.
The NC is really helpful for me! I am in need of so much healing. I am not going to rush it.
Friends - am I missing something?
M-48/XH-48 M=25/T=28 years Ds-24,22/S-18 D - 3/11 A Day at a Time
You're not missing a thing. The things coming out of your H's mouth are the same type of things that my H has said.
My H became very resentful of the responsibility of being the head of the household. He felt he was just a paycheck and there was no way to convince him otherwise even with proof. I tried before finding DBing. He said he needed to leave to find happiness before he died.
Your H has the script down pat.
Stay as dark as you can, keep working on yourself, and give your H a good dose of what it's like to not have IB in his life.
Your H's fantasy world will slowly unravel around him.
