New Game- Exposed

[steady]

I did talk about setting boundaries. That is helping them. I never said you just walk away.

There's a difference between setting boundaries and showing people how they are not being responsible and just walking away from them. I never stated once that you just turn your back.

Puppy, in your example of the drunk - I have a lot of experiences with drunks. If you look at a post I made above about my friend you will see I attempted to help him countless times. It's like talking to a brick wall, but I tried. There came a point where I had to turn my back on him. I left with the statement that when he is ready to do the work necessary to make his life better I will be there to help him.

With drunks, the best way to help them is to draw boundaries and stop enabling their behavior. Period. I went to AA and have been sober for over 22 years now. I have seen hundreds of alcoholics. They don't get it until they hit a bottom. The best way to help them is to help them reach that bottom as quick as possible. To accept their behavior and placate them is hurting them.

I fought for my marriage. I pointed out my W's issues - the drinking, the controlling behavior, the inability to accept responsibility for herself - our MC pointed it out, the Clinical Psychologist who did the forensic analysis pointed it out, our first and second MC pointed it out, I pointed it many times during our marriage and post bomb (after she actually said she wanted a D). She continues to deny them. In her mind, we are all wrong and she is right.

Those are seeds that are planted. I have no control over whether they grow or not. I put my a$$ out there knowing her resentment of me would grow every time I pointed them out. So be it. I did the right thing.

None of us can assume to know what path anyone should be on. I drank myself silly. People tried to help - they pointed it out many times. I was in denial. It wasn't until they got tough with me, stopped enabling that I was on my way to my 'bottom'. Once I hit that everything changed.

Think about this - if we never got the bomb, how many of us would actually be doing the work we do here? lol.

Sometimes backwards is forwards and forwards is backwards. You can never know - as far as I know no one can predict the future. We need to go through adversity in order to grow. Unfortunately it is a bigger motivator than wanting to improve without the pain.

Also, as truegritter pointed out, there is a big difference between a child and an adult. The child is your responsibility because they are not capable of taking care of themselves like an adult.

Another adult is not your responsibility. You are. You can never draw boundaries for someone else. You can only draw them for yourself. You also can never control anyone else unless they allow it.

In your example of the heroin addict - you can't draw a boundary for them stating they can never do heroin again. But you can't draw a boundary which says I will not allow you to do such and such with me because I find your use of heroine unacceptable. It's also your responsibility to shield your children from that person. As I will have to do with my W and her drinking.

How do I know if my W's drinking will bring her to her bottom where she will wake up, see everything 180 degrees different, then do the work on herself which then saves our M?

That's why I laugh at people's attempts to 'control and manipulate people into doing what they think is right. My experience shows my attempts to do this usually backfire and give me the opposite effect.

I disagree. A drunk doesn't want help, we still help them, and it IS what's best for them.

Define 'help'.

My definition:

You point out they have a drinking problem.
You do an intervention with other people.(most often the deny and resent)
You show them how their behavior is having a negative impact on you, your children, them, etc... (usually they don't want to hear this)
You draw your boundaries and make it clear what is and is not acceptable to you.
You enforce your boundaries. By doing this you stop enabling them.
You detach from them and allow them to follow their path - interfering only when they cross the boundaries.
Hopefully they will hit their bottom and come to see the light.

Isn't that what we do here Puppy? You see in the above case I never told them what is best for them. I addressed what is best for ME (including my children).

How would you know what is best for them? It's not humanly possible. You can only determine what you perceive as what is best for yourself because in reality you don't know. You do your best to take in all the information and make as best a decision as you can make. Sometimes you look back with hindsight and say you made a mistake and sometimes you look back and say you did the right thing. But always, you do what you do when you do it.

Isn't it obvious you want only the best for your child? To succeed at everything they do? This is what is 'best' for them. Do you think it's wise to shield your children from every mistake they could make? Set them up in an environment where they never make mistakes? Isn't it ultimately BEST for them to make mistakes?

Can you chose which mistakes they should and shouldn't make? (not including mistakes that will cause them or someone else physical harm or death - these are self obvious). Do you really know which mistakes will help them and which mistakes will hurt them?