New Game- Exposed

[CD Bear]

Thanks.
This is sinking in quite rapidly. In theory.
And I'm getting the "feeling" beneath it.
What it will "feel like" to behave this way.
It really is a calming, confidence-enhancing "wave"

The only thing that causes me worry is when I have to deal with the "new" W as opposed to dealing with her "old W" actions and convo's.

And I certainly don't want it to be misconstrued as being her "friend".

Or does it simply not matter at all?
It's ME. And it has nothing to do with how she is behaving or what she is doing or how she is treating me.

I am still ME and I still show her respect and love.
I am still ME and I don't react to her actions
I just do what I'm going to do to please me and be true to MY belief that THIS is how you love someone.

[Truegritter]

I am still ME and I still show her respect and love.
I am still ME and I don't react to her actions
I just do what I'm going to do to please me and be true to MY belief that THIS is how you love someone.

You answered your own question...

[MHL]

Pretty much sums it up, Now live it.
CD I am glad you are getting this, it takes while for it to become your "skin" as grit said.
I have been at this while and I can honestly say I did not find my new skin until a couple of weeks ago.
I can tell it won`t take you nearly that long, your doing great here and you are on your way.
Time and Patience, I promise you that she will test these things again and again.

[steady]

.... And now that I've read this, I think I may have hurt my W today.

She sent me the following text:
-Wanna hear the best thing to happen to me yet?
-(Ex-fiance before CD name here) is moving to XXX for a girl he's had a LD R with for 8 months. Leaving the end of the month.
-LOL Sweet @ss
(5 minutes later)
-No comment?

My brain was all over the place during this time, I chose not to respond as my thoughts were "How does this affectme? YOU are divorcing ME? Why is the ex-before-me and your happiness over his leaving town (like we've seen him even twice in 7 years) any concern of mine?

I sent:
CD: I thought you sent this to me by accident
W:Nope
CD:Oh
W:Nevermind
CD:I understand how that would make you happy. That's good news for you!

Not very loving in light of the new revelations.

She's trying to share an "old moment" with me and I do this.

However, I still don't ubderstand how she could think this would matter to me ESPECIALLY given the current situation.

My first thought was to say:
"Great. Maybe in 7 years when you learn I had a heart attack you can tell your next boyfriend after the OM?"

Sorry guys. I had no idea what she was trying to do and ignored her text as long as I could.

A small 2x4 swing here. A few months ago, right after my W did some vindictive things, and basically told me she did not want me to text or email her anything except concerning the kids. Also after she said she was just going to lie to me about her personal life...lol.

I get a text one night -

W- "Great news. I got out of jury duty. They settled the case"

Me (after about 10 mins) - I think you meant to send that text to someone else.

W - No. Just wanted to let you know what was going on.

Me - Well that's your personal life. I don't need to know anything about your personal life.

Let me say this. If I allow her to behave the way she is toward me and I keep silent then I am silently telling her it's ok to treat me like a piece of sh*t and I'll just stand here with a smile on my face. You know, I did that throughout my marriage so I wouldn't make waves. I did for a year after the bomb...she totally lost respect for me because I didn't make boundaries and enforce them. More importantly I lost my self respect and my dignity. When I began standing up for myself that's when I got on my path to reclaim all of that and my power. I got respect back for myself.

If this person was my friend instead of my W would I tolerate this behavior? Nope. Eventually our spouses didn't and then they took that opportunity to snatch up the power, then use it against us. As time went on, she abused more and more of that power because I didn't say anything.

The viciousness grew. It's the same as a child. If you don't draw the boundary and enforce it, they will push you further and further.

CD, did you do exactly as you were feeling at the moment? Were you being authentically you or did you act in a way in which you hoped she would like you more?

Do you want this woman as a friend? I mean really? I know I don't want a friend who is treating me like my W is. She's lying and fabricating things about me. Then taking these lies and slandering me to other people.

I talked to my neighbor (female) today. My W hangs out with her also. Our kids play together all the time. A few weeks back I approached her and told her I know my W likes to build a team so I'm sure she talked to you about what's going on. I explained that the majority of what she is saying is not true and a the past stuff is a re-write of history. We had a long discussion about it.

Tonight when I dropped off her kids she asked me how Monday went. I told her. We got to talking more. She looked at me and said, "I'll tell you this. I've noticed what you've been talking to me about." I asked if she could be a little more specific. She said since we talked last and she's gotten to know my W even more, and she sees the behaviors I talked about.

It felt great. I was vindicated to some extent. I thanked her validating it.

I used to treat people the way I wanted to be treated. Some people will take that and walk all over you. That's what my W did and I just took it. Then Whiskey Tango posted on my thread and said, "You treat people the way they deserve to be treated."

I'll yield and give way. I'll still give people the benefit of the doubt. But now my foot goes down a lot earlier in the process. These are the boundaries.

Do I love my children. Unconditionally. And I tell them all the time - "I always love you. I may not like your behavior but I always love you and that will never change." I will not accept inappropriate or hurtful behavior just because I love them unconditionally. You can love your adult child unconditionally, and at the same time kick them out of the house. Or cut off support. These are boundaries drawn from unconditional love. They are not mutually exclusive.

I love them unconditionally, but I have boundaries. I can have those boundaries and still love them. I love my W. I hate her behavior. It's nauseating to me. I get nauseated in her presence. I love her - but I don't like her current personality.

Do I think you did the right thing CD. Yeah I do. Maybe she needs some shots across the bow.

If she was a total stranger, would you accept her behavior?

My friend J, who was a great friend of mine, used to call me up drunk and sit there and whine and complain about his life and his helplessness. I must have spent hundreds of hours on the phone repeating the same conversations, the same advice, the same understanding over and over.

Two months ago he called me again. He was drunk. I called him on it. He denied it. I gave him three more shots to come clean. I blasted him. He hung up on me.

I sent a text telling him I love him as my friend. I always will. I told him not to call me or contact me any more unless he gets sober. I told him when he's ready to stop behaving like a child and he wants help to improve and get his life straight to call me and I will be more than happy to help him.

Haven't heard from him since. This was a healthy boundary for me. He was sucking me dry.

CD only you can draw your own boundaries with your W. Do you want to have chit chat texts like the one she sent or not? I mean... Do [b]YOU/b] want it? Not what she wants or she needs or what will make you look more favorably to her.

What do you want? When you figure that out, then you can draw your boundaries around it. It will shift and change...then you merely redraw your boundaries.

One day I may want to be friends with my W. That day is not today. Her actions are way over the top desctructive to me. It's a poison I don't need in my life. I don't want someone in my life who continues to treat me the way she is. Knowing that, I draw my boundary - She's not my friend. I won't talk to her as a friend. She's someone I co-parent with therefore I only communicate with her about the kids.

My boundary. It's healthy for me and I don't care what it does to her. She's an adult, she is responsible for her own reactions.

You can't live trying to protect people.

[CD Bear]

Good. Thank you.
So I AM getting it!!

This is awesome!!

Straight up:
Puppy got me through the hard W stuff. Can never repay that.
And I'm sure I'll need him again.

You, Missher, and Steady have started me on the ME stuff.
Again, I'll owe more than I can ever repay.

And I got a dog and two brothers out of the deal. Maybe three.

[Truegritter]

I agree with Steady

Set boundaries.

They are tools to get you where you are going.

If you can't converse with W without the anger and resentment

or without the detachment with which you speak to the mail man.

Don't do it.

Your journey will take you to a point and

...then to places beyond that.

I have often wondered do we always or will we always need a boundary?

I think the goal maybe is to get to a point where it doesn't matter.

But

Maybe that's when the three of us are reincarnated and living on mars....

Make no mistake

You are not expressing love to gain acceptance of W

For any reason

Other than expression of your own idea of

what it means to love your W.

And it doesn't mean you have to respond or be her friend even

It just means whatever it is you decide is comfortable for you.

IMO you have to eventually get to a point where your trauma subsides...

from any interaction with W

Then you know you are healing.

If you place too much emphasis on how she is behaving or treating you

You haven't detached and

You haven't healed.

[steady]

IMO you have to eventually get to a point where your trauma subsides...

from any interaction with W

Then you know you are healing.

If you place too much emphasis on how she is behaving or treating you

You haven't detached and

You haven't healed.

This is a strike on the center. This is where I'm at. She does these things, lies and fabrications, my frustration and anger has turned more to sadness and feeling sorry for her now. It comes and goes rapidly now. I am approaching the point where no matter what she says or does I will be unflappable.

I told my neighbor today that I feel bad for my W. I said, "I wouldn't want to live in her skin for a second. Could you imagine what it's like to live like that. The alcohol problem. The anxiety and stress. The lying and exaggeration."

I wouldn't want to be her right now.

This is closer to loving detachment rather than detachment from anger. I can see uou can detach using either one. Her behavior brought about the angry detachment, now it seems to be moving into a more neutral/loving detachment. I can see I needed the angry one first. So that's why it came like that.

I got what needed, not what I wanted. I'll take needed any day.

[CD Bear]

CD, did you do exactly as you were feeling at the moment? Were you being authentically you or did you act in a way in which you hoped she would like you more?

No. I can actually say when I saw the first line I honestly believed she sent it to the wrong person.
When the rest came at me, all I could think was "Why would I have any need for this story? Why are you telling me this?"
So, after I realized it was intended for me, all I could think of to say was to validate her feelings and acknowledge how she must feel. Personally, I felt confused.

Do you want this woman as a friend? I mean really? I know I don't want a friend who is treating me like my W is. She's lying and fabricating things about me. Then taking these lies and slandering me to other people.

No. Not THIS version of her. Not at all. Not close to the quality of MY friends.

One day I may want to be friends with my W. That day is not today. Her actions are way over the top desctructive to me. It's a poison I don't need in my life. I don't want someone in my life who continues to treat me the way she is. Knowing that, I draw my boundary - She's not my friend. I won't talk to her as a friend. She's someone I co-parent with therefore I only communicate with her about the kids.
My boundary. It's healthy for me and I don't care what it does to her. She's an adult, she is responsible for her own reactions. You can't live trying to protect people.

EXACTLY

CD only you can draw your own boundaries with your W. Do you want to have chit chat texts like the one she sent or not? I mean... Do YOU want it? Not what she wants or she needs or what will make you look more favorably to her.
What do you want? When you figure that out, then you can draw your boundaries around it. It will shift and change...then you merely redraw your boundaries.

Well, I did today what I wanted. I will continue to treat texts or words or actions that are unacceptable as unacceptable. Things I feel are unnecessary will be responded to (or not) as such. And as I grow stronger, these lines will shift to differing levels. But the boundaries will be tangible.
I can't wait to be strong enough to begin setting boundaries for ME, too. As in, not smoking anymore.

Thanks, little brother.

[CD Bear]

Make no mistake
You are not expressing love to gain acceptance of W
For any reason
Other than expression of your own idea of
what it means to love your W.
And it doesn't mean you have to respond or be her friend even
It just means whatever it is you decide is comfortable for you.

And that's just ME.

This is where I'm at. She does these things, lies and fabrications, my frustration and anger has turned more to sadness and feeling sorry for her now. It comes and goes rapidly now. I am approaching the point where no matter what she says or does I will be unflappable

Bingo! Much less anger. MUCH less self-loathing. Far fewer "butterflies" when I think about her or the sitch. WAY MORE calm, confident and collected.

I feel bad for my W. I said, "I wouldn't want to live in her skin for a second. Could you imagine what it's like to live like that. The alcohol problem. The anxiety and stress. The lying and exaggeration."I wouldn't want to be her right now.

I started to notice this last weekend. I saw her after the Chatty Cathy routine. She was at OM's place. She looked so sad and bored. Nothing like the facade I saw.

This is closer to loving detachment rather than detachment from anger. I can see you can detach using either one. Her behavior brought about the angry detachment, now it seems to be moving into a more neutral/loving detachment. I can see I needed the angry one first. So that's why it came like that.

Ditto. Initially my detachment was angry/resentful/"forced" and borderline rude. I was still there when I confronted because it happened so quickly. Too soon for me to get "HERE".
And now the detachment (and future confrontations/boundaries/interactions will come from a much different place. A much different ME

[Mike.4545]

Obviously it's not. That's the whole premise of if you love something set it free.

If you really love someone you wouldn't want to get in the way of them and their happiness. You wouldn't want to take them from the path they need to be on in order to become the people they will be.

Lester Levenson said it best - The love we show isn't love at all. It's an exchange of giving and getting. When the person is with us we love them. As soon as they try to leave we despise them and curse them.

In all actuality we are doing what the WAS is doing - except in the completely opposite direction. They want to be happy. They do what they do looking for it. When they leave, we are unhappy. We want them to come back so we can be happy.

If we try to manipulate and control them to come back, we are only interfering in the natural evolution of them as a person. Sometimes backwards is forwards. It's all appearances. Just go read that Zen story about the farmer again.

We don't know what's bad or good. We only interpret what is happening and compare it to how it affects us. If we perceive it is taking something away from us we call it bad. If we perceive it as adding to us we call it good.

Not to barge in, but although I do agree with much of the concepts you discuss, I respectfully disagree with this. While "good" and "bad, "right" and "wrong" are so very subjective, it seems like a cop-out to me to release ourselves of the responsibility we have to look after our loved ones from doing "wrong", or "bad"...because hopefully we have enough insight and life experience to know what behaviors are conducive to a healthy, happy life...even if it's not our own. For example:

Say your wife loves heroine...She's convinced it's the key to her happiness in life...cause hell...it makes her happy and makes her feel good. You think it's wrong and destructive to her life, so you do everything in your power to influence her away from it. In your opinion its bad, and in her opinion it's good. Accepting the idea that it's not your right or responsibility to intervene on her behalf is crap to me. We owe more than that to the ones we love...even if we don't get it in return. Heroine would almost certainly screw up her life in the long run...it's wrong...it's bad...If you love her, you'd rightfully do everything in your power to take her away from the "happiness" it brings her, and remove her from the "path" she's on...because you can and should positively influence the person by helping them towards the "path" that is most conducive to making them the person they should be...happy and healthy.

If I had a child and wanted them to learn to cross the street safely I have two options. 1. Natural evolution/progression: Meaning they figure it out by running across the street and get hit by a car, or almost get hit by a car...and from that experience, if they live, they learn to look both ways. OR 2: Intervene for what we know is right, and influence them to the best of my ability to look both ways from the get-go...and give them the best chance of not having to learn the hard way that running across a street without looking is "WRONG"

In my situation, I hold more value to my beliefs than to write them off as "just my opinion...Not definitively right or wrong" I love my wife unconditionally. To me, in my situation...that means I feel and have an obligation to steer her in a healthy direction, whether it results in the end of our marriage or not. Everything I do or say has her best interests in mind as much as my own. That is why I can let her go, or accept her back...as long as she is making the decision for the right reasons.

Sorry for my rant...I mean no disrespect...but I got worked up over the concepts of "right" and "wrong" being totally subjective. If we don't want to accept the task and responsibility of determining what is right or wrong...we might as well be wild animals.