Looking for help with WAW

[mza8]

Steve, I hear everything you're saying. Yes, she certainly is into herself but then again aren't most WAWs? Selling the house is also mutually beneficial for me. I won't have to worry about that hassle anymore.

Again, what's my alternative? Give up? Just say that I'm ok with giving up on 19 years together after a measly 9 months? After the crap we went through and how I was during that time? Things I didn't do but should have? What does that say about my love for her? Not very much in my opinion. No, I'm sorry, I can't do that. I will not allow two very difficult years to define our M and who I am. Who knows if this M can be saved but I'm going to work as hard as I can to save it.

[CityGirl]

I don't have time this second to fully respond to your post but thought I would offer this...

I didn't suggest or tell you to give up on your marriage. I am unsure how I conveyed that message. Why do you have to make a choice is what I was asking. I am all for your marriage but I personally think there are better ways to approach it given the circumstances and the history of it all. Not that I am expert(clearly!) but I *am* a woman contrary to popular belief. I know your history (I am not being creepy, lol, I have just followed your thread for a long time) so I didn't feel my suggestion was THAT outlandish.

Life isn't always black and white. Don't box yourself in with a this or that approach.

[Steve McQueen]

Steve, I hear everything you're saying. Yes, she certainly is into herself but then again aren't most WAWs?

When I was in graduate school, one year, I needed to work second shift in a factory in order to not starve. I hung sheet metal for appliances on a hanger to be run through a paint baker for 40 hrs a week for 200 dollars. Across the street was Smokey's Place. I would go for a few drafts with the guys from work, every now and again. There was one fellow, I worked with, who had his phone number tattooed on his forearm so when he passed out at the bar the bartender knew how to get a hold of his wife to pick him up. I realized then that everyone has there own set of problems that aren't yours to solve.

Again, what's my alternative? Give up?

No. Your alternative is to stop caring what your wife thinks about you and accept who you are for yourself, good or bad, right or wrong, whatever and whenever. Remember Sandi's Rule: these changes are for you. If your wife doesn't like them so be it. You can't control what another person thinks. In fact, you have no knowledge of what is going through their mind.

It usually goes that when they realize you are an individual and do not need their acceptance to be confident and self assured, is when they really take notice. Good Luck.

[mza8]

City Girl, I didn't think you were telling me to give up. I asked those questions as more of rhetorical questions. That's why I dislike writing things sometimes because it's not always easy to convey what I'm trying to say. I'm sorry if you thought I was questioning you. I know you have always been here supporting me and giving me good advice.

I was hoping that you have been following along. LOL, I don't think you were being creepy. I'm glad you know my history and have been following. I really do appreciate it.

I am very interested in hearing your full response. I agree that I don't want to get locked into a black or white approach. You're a woman, do you have any idea of what my W is thinking/going through now? I am really trying and I want to understand her. I think I am getting better at knowing. I know she's hurt and she's angry. Would love to hear from you CG when you have the time.

I saw W tonight at gym. I went up late figuring she would be gone. I went after I finished up house listing paperwork at office. She was at gym with her GF again. I did approach her and very cheerfully said that I had a copy of the house paperwork for her if she wanted to see me when she was done her workout and I would walk out to my car and give her her copy. She said ok. See got me when she was done and we walked out together. I gave her a very quick update on today's house activity. I was very cheerful and kept the conversation just about the house info and ended the conversation quickly.

I made sure to say hello and be cheerful to her friend who was very friendly back to me. W was very different from last night. She was very cold and distant. I remembered what my IC told me today to expect this from her and make sure I didn't react to it like I used to do. I was my new self tonight. I didn't let it bother me at all. At the end I thanked her and went to walk back into the gym and she told me to have a good rest of my workout.

[CityGirl]

All I am saying is your W isn't all that hard to figure out. I understand the last two years of your marriage had massive problems with finances and your business closing and I know you and your W dealt with it in very different ways. You also had said a while back that your W has NEVER been good at handling or dealing with adult stresses or problems and that was something that was present long before the financial/business issue.

I am unsure why you think she will somehow change when that problem existed long before your financial/business problems happened. It's who she is. Unless she wants to change it she won't and nothing you can do will have any bearing on her at all. I am not being unkind about your W because 99.9% of the time I have no idea what I am doing, lol!

I don't think your W is all that angry about the marriage. She sounds done and detached. I think she is pissed that she had to deal with the house issue for as long as she has and I think she is pissed the house issue didn't come neatly packaged with a divorce settlement.

I understand you have looked around a bit but honestly, I really do think your W is up to something with somebody else. Or she is very invested in the idea of having somebody else. If that is not the case and she is just that pissed about a house, well, IMO that is a very serious issue only she can work on.

She just doesn't sound well equipped to handle things and it doesn't sound like this is a new problem. And while you can work to change the dynamic (I know you have) there is only so much you can do.

Sometimes it helps me to take "my stuff" out of the equation and think in generalities. You know how they say not the same thing will work for everybody? Think of the all the discussions that have taken place on this site about sleeping with your spouse when they are in an affair. Who is to say what is right or wrong? I guess nobody. Now me? I sure as hell would not be prancing around in a pair of thigh highs and a corset in the hopes it would "woo" my H and show him I am the better option. I sure as hell would not sleep with ANYBODY while they are sleeping with somebody else even if that "somebody" happened to be my husband. Hell no. As arrogant as my H is even he would know better to even ask for such a thing, lol! But for many people they say sex with an estranged spouse went a long way in keeping some sort of connection. So what would work for me/you could be way different.

I don't think any form of C'ing is more right but in my experience (which again really means jack) I felt better about myself and my present and future when my C was very action orientated for ME. Your C sounds like he is a friend that likes to talk. If he has known couples that did not talk for a year then what does that say about his skill set?

I think the term "hard approach" is not always what people think. Give her a divorce and get a fair settlement. All that means is the legal part of your marriage has been dissolved. If she is not BS'ing you then she will get C'ing without your prompting and will want to get to know you again. If she is full of crap then at least the business side of things will be settled and you can go from there.

I realize this is just a gut feeling and I should probably keep it to myself but I have always thought of your W as incredibly sneaky and manipulative who knew how to play you like a fiddle. I mean my H and I were in an absolute legal war that was horrifying, he was having an affair and lots of VERY unpleasant stuff was happening and we still spoke.

So as a woman I can tell you that if I chose not to talk to somebody for nine months they wouldn't even be a blip on my radar... they would be an unpleasant chore that I still had ties to.

What is the big deal about creating a settlement? Who cares if it's tied to the house? I really am just trying to understand!

[mza8]

Thanks CG. As far as W with someone else, I've done "extensive" investigation and found nothing. So I kind of put that one to bed for now.

To be honest I don't even care if she changes the way she deals with financial/business issues. I've dealt with it for years so it doesn't surprise me.

As far as her being angry or detahced, well, who knows for sure except for her I guess. I'm sure I could talk to 10 counselors and get 10 different opinions. My DB coach thought that W was angry about me allowing the financial problems to affect M. Who knows? I talk to my C of how to get her to get past the past and join me here in the present. Again, I've gotten different opinions on this. I'm not sure what action my IC can suggest to me now? What else can I try? I think Steve is correct that I need to show her I'm a confident individual regardless of what she thinks. I feel like that's what I've been doing.

To answer your questions about separation agreement. In my state if I sign a separation agreement before the end of the one year separation period, my W can file and have her D after the one year. If I don't sign a separation agreement and contest the D, she has to wait a second year before she can get her D.

I specifically asked my IC if he thought W was detached and done. He didn't think so because of her anger on Monday. He said that someone who displays that kind of anger and says what she said about my changes is still "emotionally invested", his words. He told me today that he doesn't want to give me false hope but he sees some things recently that he suggests I give it some more time. He did say that I have got to stop talking to her about M. He said no question that is/will push her further away.

[CityGirl]

Well, it's always easier to side with the opinion when it's what you want to hear.

I guess you need to ask yourself if you would be satisfied with a woman who cannot handle or deal with finances or life problems.

All I am saying is you easily side with the opinion you like best (generally speaking). As a woman I will say again - if I made no effort towards somebody for nine months they wouldn't mean a darn thing to me unless I had financial ties with them. And if they did not do what I requested to end those ties (like your W did, sending you a separation agreement with the house stuff) I would not be all that happy. I wouldn't be pissed though by ignoring you at the gym and acting bitchy, I would just do what I had to do to get what I needed to end the ties. How surprised would you be if that happened (your W filing or seeking a formal separation agreement) once the house sold?

One year, two year... it sounds like there is little money to divide. I guess I have to ask again what does it matter? Maybe your W is tired of being a grown woman living with her parents and wants her part of the money. Just throwing things out there!

[mza8]

Well, we could sit hear and debate this all night. In the end it comes down to my decision not to give up. I hear everything you're saying, I really do but I need to do what's best for me. Even if you don't agree with my decision I hope that you will respect my decision to keep fighting.

Sure, she could ask for the S agreement again after the house is sold. Will she? I don't know. If I can't figure out what she's thinking about M then I have no idea how to figure out what she will do one month, two months or more from now. I really haven't had anyone (friends, family, IC, pets, mailman, etc.) tell me to give up. So it's not like I'm just listening to what I want to hear. I've asked for people's advice here all of the time. I don't remember anyone here telling me to quit. Some of the advice has been tough to hear but it's good.

As for how my W is acting/dealing with this, well, I guess everyone is different. I don't like it but it's the reality of what I have to deal with right now. By her own admission two weeks ago she even said that people can change their mind. Was she being manipulative when she said that? Maybe, maybe not. I know people's tendency is to be skeptical when people say things. Are they BSing or not? I don't now for sure. None of us here who are trying to save their M know for sure if what their WAS says is BS or some truth. I think that's why we hang in there, to find out...

[CityGirl]

I am NOT telling you to quit. Diving money/assets is not quitting. It is a SMART decision when you are dealing with a WAS. One has nothing to do with the other.

Nowhere did I tell you to quit. Dividing money is protection. She has asked you to do that and you would not unless it was on your terms.

I never said quit nor would I so there is little to debate.

[mza8]

LOL CG. It's late and I must be getting punchy. I know you're not telling me to quit. I was just referring to you saying that if it was you after 9 months that you wouldn't be at all interested in the LBS. That's all I was talking about with the debating comment. That's why I said that everyone is different.

Getting back to the division of money/assets. True, it is smart but honeslty there isn't much to divide. She has all of the joint money she moved into a separate account. She could spend it all before I could file anything to try to recover half. So I don't see much point? She has been paying our joint bills with the joint money so that's fine with me. The only other thing left is some furniture and the dogs. I have a little more than half of the furniture and I have the dogs. She doesn't even ask about them anymore.

Anyway, how are things with you? Has your H texted you anymore?