can you draw the boundaries when you're really into someone and have something to lose?
You always have something very important (the most important thing in your life) to lose if you do not maintain healthy boundaries: yourself and your happiness.
I guess I should have said 'someone' to lose. It's easy to draw boundaries with people who have nothing you want or need. It's a whole different story to draw them and risk the other person walking away. That's what I meant.
Of course you need to do it in both cases or else you lose yourself, you lose the authenticity of the relationship and are basically living a lie. That's what being authentic is about. We believe it's unbelievably risky, but to be honest, most people will totally respect you for it - even if they walk away.
And women and men are attracted to a man who puts the real him out there regardless of what anyone thinks. And vice versa.
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
It's easy to draw boundaries with people who have nothing you want or need. It's a whole different story to draw them and risk the other person walking away.
Yup.
Something we say also
It is easy to detach(boundary) from someone who is an a$$hole
Harder to do it with love.
This is the step beyond this discussion and I am interested in where you guys come down on it so I'll put it out there.
Regarding your W
Now we all have set boundaries in terms of detachment at least and maybe more...
And we do risk them walking away.
And they do have something we want or need right?
or
at least we perceived that we needed it or wanted it.
So what is love then?
I mean the love we promised to have for our spouse when we took our vows.
Unconditional Love?
And what do we need?
How do we need to be loved?
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
Obviously it's not. That's the whole premise of if you love something set it free.
If you really love someone you wouldn't want to get in the way of them and their happiness. You wouldn't want to take them from the path they need to be on in order to become the people they will be.
Lester Levenson said it best - The love we show isn't love at all. It's an exchange of giving and getting. When the person is with us we love them. As soon as they try to leave we despise them and curse them.
In all actuality we are doing what the WAS is doing - except in the completely opposite direction. They want to be happy. They do what they do looking for it. When they leave, we are unhappy. We want them to come back so we can be happy.
If we try to manipulate and control them to come back, we are only interfering in the natural evolution of them as a person. Sometimes backwards is forwards. It's all appearances. Just go read that Zen story about the farmer again.
We don't know what's bad or good. We only interpret what is happening and compare it to how it affects us. If we perceive it is taking something away from us we call it bad. If we perceive it as adding to us we call it good.
In reality, everything is neutral. It has no meaning. Like Shakespeare said, "There is no good or bad. Just our thinking that makes it so." The same thing is said in many different ways. I think this is what is achieved by detachment. We no longer mind read, project into the future (usually negatively), focus on someone else besides ourselves - all ultimately controlling behavior. We want to know so we can somehow control something - control people, control the situation, control our reaction to the situation, etc..
There is no control. It's a complete illusion. I would even go so far to say we ultimately have no control over ourselves. But that's a story for another day.
Here's an example:
We have two men. Each one of their wives leaves them.
Man #1 hates his marriage, despises his wife, wants to be out of the marriage. When his wife leaves he is happy.
Man #2 loves his wife. Wants to grow old with her. Wants to be happy with her. When his wife leaves he is unhappy.
Same event (wife leaving) two different reactions to a 'neutral' event.
The funny thing is we don't feel another persons love. The feeling we feel is generated inside of us. That's what we feel. You can't feel someone else's emotion, only your own.
I'm starting to really lean toward Lester Levenson here again. He states the feeling we call love comes from within us when our desire is quenched and there is no more searching. When you meet that person you fall in 'love' with your desire and search for someone to love ends. The incessant thinking and obsessing and chasing for that love ceases to be. When that happens, your true self shines through. He says this is why you have that bliss and peaceful feeling. That love, bliss and peace are our natural state and it's the natural state of a baby and young children until they get corrupted. We tell them no, make them 'politically correct', rob them of their spontaneity and innocence. Of course it has to be that way in order for them to survive in this world.
When we peal off the layers, and take away our issues, show more and more of our authentic self, that original and natural state we are comes through.
That's what I'm ultimately aiming for. But to do it in life and not in some monastery on a mountain somewhere.
MySitch Me-47 STBXW-41 D-5 S-8 ILYBNILWY-01/08 Want a D- 01/09 Physical Sep-01/10 D filed-06/10 Got 50% custody=09/11 Ride that wave!
Look I am saying if they want a divorce what are you going to do?
You don't have control over that.
You do have control over your own actions.
And only your own actions or reactions.
Originally Posted By: steady
The love we show isn't love at all. It's an exchange of giving and getting. When the person is with us we love them. As soon as they try to leave we despise them and curse them.
In all actuality we are doing what the WAS is doing - except in the completely opposite direction. They want to be happy. They do what they do looking for it. When they leave, we are unhappy. We want them to come back so we can be happy.
Right spot the f@ck on!
When you do achieve detachment and you do understand that love is not what get from another it is what you give
without needing its return
Then
Let's just take the case that brought us all here.
Your W had an A.
At first you want to "get" them back. You want something and they want something different.
Maybe they are scared, confused or whatever and they think that the only way they can be loved like they want to be is to leave and have an A.
Then
We grow and we understand.
And that is the journey of the LBS.
If we run away because they reject us are we any different?
You confirm to her that you did not really love her by this rejection because it is after all conditional.
You confirm for her the doubts she has about herself and you.
IMO there is opportunity to express and communicate to your W that you love her more than just an exchange.
You have an opportunity to prove to yourself that you can love without those conditions.
That you are only expressing what you believe...
For a time long enough to where you can move on without anger or resentment.
That you are not a victim of soemone who wouldn't give you what you wanted
BUT
Someone who has courage enought to express the best kind fo love for his W.
To heal.
And during that time maybe, just maybe...
This expression of love has a chance to flourish and
your W maybe understands this and your M is saved.
A possibility?
That you will love and honor them.
Honor means that if they want to divorce you then that is their choice
How are you harmed if you are no longer attached to outcomes.
You are not holding on.
That takes effort.
That means you are trying to control.
You are GIVING away...
How would you want to be loved?
Only when you are peaceful and not scared?
Or
When you have lost your way and are so scared you run away?
This is not a point of black and white this is a process just as our growth is a lifelong process.
That requires constant experience, pain and correction.
There is a gift to be understood through this process,
...this tragedy we have endured.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
The BIGGEST poke in the eye (and I have a follow up that will blow you away, I hope- it did me)was this piece
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
...There is opportunity to express and communicate to your W that you love her more than just an exchange. You have an opportunity to prove to yourself that you can love without those conditions. That you are only expressing what you believe... For a time long enough to where you can move on without anger or resentment. That you are not a victim of soemone who wouldn't give you what you wanted BUT Someone who has courage enought to express the best kind fo love for his W.
The follow up that popped into MY head was let us look if the situation was reversed and WE were the WAS. How hard would it be, especially as time and the PEA wore off, to NOT look back at our W's if they continued to love us and respect our desire to leave without harshness; resentment; anger; bitterness; payback; etc? Damn impossible, I would think.
I think I just had another attitude tweak. It's a fine line between being "loving" and "pursuing/doormat" but to exude the loving attitude and manner would mean the difference.
And now that I've read this, I think I may have hurt my W today.
She sent me the following text: -Wanna hear the best thing to happen to me yet? -(Ex-fiance before CD name here) is moving to XXX for a girl he's had a LD R with for 8 months. Leaving the end of the month. -LOL Sweet @ss (5 minutes later) -No comment?
My brain was all over the place during this time, I chose not to respond as my thoughts were "How does this affectme? YOU are divorcing ME? Why is the ex-before-me and your happiness over his leaving town (like we've seen him even twice in 7 years) any concern of mine?
I sent: CD: I thought you sent this to me by accident W:Nope CD:Oh W:Nevermind CD:I understand how that would make you happy. That's good news for you!
Not very loving in light of the new revelations.
She's trying to share an "old moment" with me and I do this.
However, I still don't ubderstand how she could think this would matter to me ESPECIALLY given the current situation.
My first thought was to say: "Great. Maybe in 7 years when you learn I had a heart attack you can tell your next boyfriend after the OM?"
Sorry guys. I had no idea what she was trying to do and ignored her text as long as I could.
...There is opportunity to express and communicate to your W that you love her more than just an exchange. You have an opportunity to prove to yourself that you can love without those conditions That you are ...Someone who has courage enough to express the best kind fo love for his W.
So how do we do this? How do we "walk that line"? What does THIS LOVE feel like?
And this may hold part of the answer:
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
How would you want to be loved? Only when you are peaceful and not scared? Or When you have lost your way and are so scared you run away?
