Looking for help with WAW

[Steve McQueen]

If I was a real jerk, I'd bring up bankruptcy again, just to freak her out. But I have to remind myself to do the Right Thing. Not just for her, but for my daughters.

You boys need to quit being "jerks" and "a-holes" to your woman. If y'all are trying to work the bad boy / good guy angle because it works in GQ underwear ads you re going about it all wrong.

Treat your woman like a slab of meat and you will get dumped
hard. sometimes with a vengeance.
take your house, take your kids, take your money. Be a jerk you will end up being treated like a jerk should.

If you want a divorce, be a man,
and go about it the right (civilized and amicable) way

If you want to save your marriage, be a man,
also.

Let me paint you a little picture of a possible future, in case you think this is the only woman in the world, you act like a jerk, treat her like crap, cuss, fight over some piece of paper called money, and you wind up divorced anyway the every woman she knows and many she doesnt know too, (you know the little circle you need to start the rest of your life from) knows you act like a jerk, treat women like crap, cuss, fight over money and probably heard some rumor through the grapevine that you got a little thing that wont stay up. Those are some difficult things to get past once your thrown back into the dating world. It's a small world.

Be a man, not a jerk.

[pinhead]

mcQueen, did you even read my post, or did you just decide to score Internet Cool Points?

I said "If I was a jerk..."

Doesn't mean I was going to, just that the idea temporarily came into my head. But thanks for your insight.

[mza8]

Thanks PH. I agree with you, no doubt my W is completely fixated on selling the house. She is very stressed out from it. Everyone keeps telling me that they think she won't be able to come around until the house is sold. I believe it. That's fine. I stepped up and did the right thing by listing it myself. We should be able to sell it quickly at the new low price. I continue to bust my a$$ with everything. Happy to to do it.

It was stange last night. There were times when she let her guard down and she was herself again. This was mostly when we talked about something other than the house or M. When we talked about the house you could see her change and get stressed. Sigh...I hope we sell this house within a month.

Hi Steve. I'm definitely not being a jerk. I'm doing what is right now, no more games. It actually seems to aggravate my W when I am too firm with things. She sees this as controlling and my old self. Kind of different than some of the DB methods I think. She wants me to take care of things, no doubt after last night, but she also doesn't want me to be too controlling of the situation. I think I understand her now.

I'm also going to do the right thing with the taxes. I mentioned that we filed an extension because she wasn't sure if she wanted to file jointly or separately. I had our accountant see what our taxes would be both ways. She called today and said W would owe a few thousand if she filed herself. I would owe a little but not too much to care if I had to file myself. We get a small refund if we file together. W will flip when she finds out she would have to pay so much if she files herself. I don't want to see that happen so I will offer to her that we file together so she doesn't have to pay.

It's all about doing what is right now. I think I still have a chance here and I'm not going to do anything to blow it. I have got to stop bringing up counseling with her though. I think she might go eventually but not yet. She is at least considering it now where she wasn't months ago. Lead and do the right thing in the meantime.

[pinhead]

MZ, are you or have you considered going to IC?

[gr8 day 2B alive]

Pin,
he has been to IC and sessions with a DB coach too.

[Steve McQueen]

nah, pinhead not trying to be "cool". dont even feel "cool." feel like changing my handle to Urkel and I find myself sitting on a boat reading Camus too often, lately.

just been reading too many guys trying to save their marriages then letting anger and frustration get the best of them. reading the consequences is one thing. seeing someone having the rug torn out from under them then taking "the easy way out" is another. if it doesnt apply to you. good. if it apply to someone else then i hope they think twice as treating a woman poorly often has dire consequences.

[mza8]

PH, Gr8 is correct, I've been to IC for over 9 months now, another appt. today. I've also had several sessions with DB coach. My DB coach and my IC have slightly different approaches than some of the advice here.

I try to balance it all and apply it to my sitch. All of this information is very helpful but can also be confusing at times since some things contradict others. The common theme in all of the advice I get from IC, DB coach and here is to give time, be patient, don't pursue and make your changes and they will notice. I now know from yesterday's talk with W that she is watching my changes. Funny though because she doesn't realize that I am separating the business stuff from our M issues now. She sees and judges me based on the business stuff. She doesn't see the rest of me. How could she unless she tries? So I'm doing the right thing with the business side of things. I'm handling things with strength and honor.

[CityGirl]

I guess what I don't understand is why all of this has to be such a big deal. I know selling a house is stressful so I that is not exactly what I mean but why all of this "tit for tat" about the other stuff?

Your W might be watching you or she might be feeding you a line of bull. Having followed your story for some time I lean towards the line of bull but my opinion means jack. I don't care who you are, once the spouse that walks away gets all up in arms about NOT using attnys there is a very good reason for that and 99% of the time it has nothing to do with money. They either want a very quick and easy exit with minimal exposure or they have something to hide.

What would be the big deal about having a separation agreement in place along with the house agreement. Clearly your W (by logical conclusion and your own admission) does not have the tools to deal with "big girl" stresses and she has not made any movement to indicate she is interested in obtaining those essential life tools. As soon as you got on the stick about selling the house she dangled just enough in front of you to keep things going her way.

I would be FLOORED at this point if she sees a C. To me it sounds like you and your C do lots of talking but don't do much in the ways of action. I am not saying that is good or bad, it's just an observation.

So really what is the big deal? You divide the money/assets/debt or whatever "marriage" business you have and follow the law to do so. It's done that way and it will be a very good indicator if her intentions have any purity to them.

And to answer your question... if she wanted to see other sides of you aside from the business side she would. She would climb a mountain to do so. She hasn't. It's sad but reality.

[Steve McQueen]

She tells me that two weeks ago when I was talking to her about things (my apologies, etc.) she was starting to think that maybe I had changed and was thinking about things. She then said that it’s clear that I haven’t changed

reads to me as if she is playing you against yourself.
Do this its wrong, do it the opposite it wrong also. lose-lose situation. and all the while you are thinking "This is a critical time where I must be consistent in everything I do with her." She is keeping your head spinning and confused.

Sir, I don't think she cares about anything other then herself. 9 months and the biggest concern is selling the house? not keeping it.

You do realize once the house is sold it is going to make the divorce a whole lot easier. No big asset/debt to negotiate. quick and easy no need for a lawyer. just sign the paper and we are done.

just something to think about. either one of you have a lot more than the other in retirement savings?

[mza8]

CG, the last two years of the M were pure hell financially. I don't want to rehash it again but I've written in previous posts the things we went through. Dealing with that amount of stress day in and day out for over 2 years would be enough to drive anyone crazy. W and I should have been in C during that time to at least get some help dealing with the stress. It changed my W, not in a good way, maybe for good. There is no question she has stepped away from reality now. I'm not sure I follow your tit for tat? I'm not sure I see where that's happening?

Had my IC today and updated him. He thinks she absolutely needs her own C to get past and deal with these issues. He sees what's happening too but he's not quite sure how to get her into C at this point. We do talk a lot and I'm not sure what other actions he could suggest? He told me today to just drop asking her about C now. He does think she is conflicted about going or not. He feels her thinking about going could have been her true thoughts but when she feels like she's being pulled into it she reverts back to her saying we want C for different reasons.

My C still thinks she has some conflict about what to do. He said that she has not accepted my last 3 invitationms for C for "her" reasons might mean she's not completely sure this is what she wants and she is giving herself time. He told me it's very easy to get frustrated by her lack of trying right now but suggested I give more time. He said that 9 months isn't unusual and he's had many couples who take well over a year before things happen. He thought her getting so upset is an obvious sign she is holding on to a lot of anger. He didn't think her anger had anything to do with the attorneys. He thought her true anger lies with the M. He gave me some good insight today.

So what's my choice here? Give up or keep trying? Yes, I know get out and GAL. I've been doing that plus going back to college new job, side job, etc., etc. So it really comes down to me. This M is still what I want and I'll keep fighting.