New Game- Exposed

[CD Bear]

Smoking? Are you off the smokes and just on gum? You are there, man.

I've read the Allen Carr book a few times but can't "pull the trigger" (Ah, procrastinator/fear of failure. Duh!)

I highly recommend it.

How close are you to stopping. I'm gonna do it when the sep Agreement is done and I can enjoy the TIME everyone keeps bragging about. The lack of W Crap should de-stress me enough to stop smoking as a huge step in my development to the new-old me.

[Truegritter]

Grew up with a controlling and hyper-critical mother. Never could please her - she always had a complaint. Only one way to do things - her way. Follow in step all was fine, do something different and the battle was on.

Holy f@ck!

Spot on me too. W #1 same way as you.

My W now quite the opposite. Guess what? Mommy don't like her.

And

Critical, guilt-inducing German Catholic mom. Nice lady. Love her to bits. But as I grew older I saw her "issues'. She got them from her mom. Controlling but also played victim a lot.

Me? Irish Catholic.

And same issues.

This was a huge discovery for me that a lot of my self doubt was born from my Mother's critical view.

How much of our experience is based in that unresloved issue?

Think about it boys.

When I posted above my example of something I wanted to change and that I hadn't healed from my first M...

My mother kept in touch with (still does) my exW.

I finally recently told her that her choice communicated to me that MY choices were wrong. And that she didn't respect my choices.

exW publicly humiliated me through three separate A's over 3 years.

And my mom still wants to be friends?

WTF?

I cannot tell you guys what a break through it was for me to recognize and then confront THAT issue.

It undermined my self esteem and I wasn't even conscious of it.

You ARE carrying those scars into your M.

[steady]

Truegritter,

I saw this soon after my W dropped the bomb. I woke up and could see very clearly I had fallen asleep. Until I met my W I was centered on internal observation and finding my shortcomings and things I needed to change. I had been doing that from 23 until I got married at 36. Unfortunately I slowly began to drift from this path and lost hold of my center. I say it's my center because human psychology and change is my passion.

My mother's mom came over from Germany and she was very strict and super controlling. That's how my mom was raised. The effects were then passed down to us.

A great book to read is - "Actually, It is Your Parents Fault." Talks all about learning from your role models as kids and then taking that into your adult life and relationships. I knew this even before I got married but was overwhelmed with the effects of our issues coming together and basically 'fell asleep'. That's the kicker for me.

How much of our experience is based in that unresloved issue?

Honestly, I think all of our 'issues' are based on unresolved issues - or at least a lack of looking at our programming and changing the dysfunctional code.

I think we go either way in the R we end up in. If a parent is controlling you either go into a R where you are the controlling one or where you are controlled. Never a healthy R. Until you resolve the internal damage which was done earlier in life.

I know I am no longer a doormat. I have learned to draw boundaries. I have learned and am living a transparent life where I can show the authentic me rather than 'hiding' it - both the good and bad sides of me. The real me IS good enough. I know I learned all these behavior mechanisms to cope with my R with my mom. It's so obvious. Even 'No More Mr Nice Guy' points them out in very clear language.

Makes you wonder about your mom - choosing to stay friends with a woman who had 3 affairs and humiliated her son. Amazing isn't it?

[CD Bear]

I think all of our 'issues' are based on unresolved issues - or at least a lack of looking at our programming and changing the dysfunctional code.
I think we go either way in the R we end up in. If a parent is controlling you either go into a R where you are the controlling one or where you are controlled. Never a healthy R. Until you resolve the internal damage which was done earlier in life.

True. And, even harder than breaking free from our own "patterns and tendencies" (I'd appreciate any reference/help material on this) is we have to be aware of our that our prospective partners will either exhibit their tendencies or 'slide' into them as they get comfortable and/or complacent in the new R with us. Then it may becoe our problem as well to assist them out of it.
Steady-do you believe our boundaries will help prevent us becoming victims to their unresolved issues?

I know I am no longer a doormat. I have learned to draw boundaries. I have learned and am living a transparent life where I can show the authentic me rather than 'hiding' it - both the good and bad sides of me. The real me IS good enough. I know I learned all these behavior mechanisms to cope with my R with my mom

I'll take all the advice/books on this evolution, too. I'm not sure that there is enough "work" in 'NM Mr Nice Guy' to resolve it. I was doormat for sure. Work and home. Aiming for a perfect M (conflict free=perfect- I know, MY definition), I just kept backing down/backing off to prevent conflict.
How's that strategy working now, CD?

[steady]

True. And, even harder than breaking free from our own "patterns and tendencies" (I'd appreciate any reference/help material on this) is we have to be aware of our that our prospective partners will either exhibit their tendencies or 'slide' into them as they get comfortable and/or complacent in the new R with us. Then it may become our problem as well to assist them out of it.
Steady-do you believe our boundaries will help prevent us becoming victims to their unresolved issues?

That's the whole idea behind the 'honeymoon phase' of a R. All those tendencies are overlooked or don't show up in the beginning of the R. We tend to accept more in the beginning and later they become problems that effect us. Now both people have issues and the depth of the problem is directly related to how those issues collide.

It's never our problem to 'fix' them. I fell into this trap. It's our responsibility to draw boundaries and express what behavior is no acceptable to us. It all has to be centered on us rather than a blame on them. That's the point of boundaries. I kept my mouth shut because I learned from childhood you don't rock the boat. You basically wait until the problem goes away. Although it never goes away unless it's addressed - it's just shoved down under where it festers and continues to create more R problems.

In this context I do believe setting our healthy boundaries does keep their issues from doing the damage to us. If they don't address the issue you keep drawing the boundary. Eventually you may have to tell them you will leave if they don't fix the issue.

I never learned how to draw boundaries. I am learning now. I'm doing it with my W and with myself. The thing to note is this - I can draw boundaries with my W because I don't have a vested interest in having a R with her. The question becomes this - can you draw the boundaries when you're really into someone and have something to lose?

The boundaries I draw with myself have to do with behaviors I have which are not acceptable to me. One of them is my tendency to 'hide' behaviors I think others will find 'wrong'. It's the toxic shame talked about in NMMNG. When I find myself trying to hide something I go 180 and expose it. The really crazy part is this - it's so prevalent that 99% of the things I hide are not behaviors that are inherently 'wrong' or criticisable. But both my M and my W would criticize me on things that merited no such criticism. So the loop continued.

I'll give you an example. There were times I would transfer money from our joint account to my account. Then I would spend it on something I wanted. I didn't want the confrontation with my W so I would just purchase it without telling her. This is hiding. I wasn't man enough to just stand up and say, "I'm buying this" and face any criticism she might have, but still stand up and buy it regardless. I see it in so much of my behavior. It's actually sad.

So the work I do is to pay attention to the thoughts that are related to such hiding myself and to allow myself to not hide it. I expose it and find I'm perfectly fine. If people have a problem with it I don't defend or rationalize. I look at their input, then I decide what is best for ME. Then stand my ground because I have made the decision. I have to let go of the fear the other person may not like me, or may leave me, or attack me. That's just being the 'nice guy' who needs that outside validation. I don't need anyone's validation. I'm learning how to self validate and it's unbelievably freeing!

I have seen references to this in many books. 'Getting Real' by Susan Campbell addresses this. It's all about being authentic and putting the real you out there for people to see.

I'll take all the advice/books on this evolution, too. I'm not sure that there is enough "work" in 'NM Mr Nice Guy' to resolve it.

How would you know if you don't do the exercises? Reading doesn't make the changes. Reading gives you the knowledge. Direct application (work in action) is what makes the changes. Enough repetitions and it becomes the new habit.

[TimeHeals]

can you draw the boundaries when you're really into someone and have something to lose?

You always have something very important (the most important thing in your life) to lose if you do not maintain healthy boundaries: yourself and your happiness.

[Truegritter]

I think we go either way in the R we end up in. If a parent is controlling you either go into a R where you are the controlling one or where you are controlled. Never a healthy R. Until you resolve the internal damage which was done earlier in life.

I agree.

First M more like I was ( I have to admit this) controlled by wanting to please her.

My W now, I ended up being the controller because of the issues SHE had/has.

Either way not healthy.

Makes you wonder about your mom - choosing to stay friends with a woman who had 3 affairs and humiliated her son. Amazing isn't it?

Yeah it does...to be fair the first one (A) happened 6 years into M and we tried to work through it. 3 years later I found out about at least an EA and during our year of "working on things" after that I found another one.

Makes me wonder what kind of woman I was married to as well...

I have learned and am living a transparent life where I can show the authentic me rather than 'hiding' it - both the good and bad sides of me. The real me IS good enough. I know I learned all these behavior mechanisms to cope with my R with my mom.

I like this ^^^^^^

It is still and always will be a work in progress.

Steady you are 45

I am 44

CD is 47

Sometimes the best gifts we receive are hard to open ...

[CD Bear]

It is still and always will be a work in progress.
Steady you are 45
I am 44
CD is 47
Sometimes the best gifts we receive are hard to open ...

Nice. I'm the oldest brother again.
But based on both your posts, I'm feeling like the little brother.
Better catch up.

[CD Bear]

It's never our problem to 'fix' them. I fell into this trap. It's our responsibility to draw boundaries and express what behavior is no acceptable to us. It all has to be centered on us rather than a blame on them. That's the point of boundaries.

Bingo #1
Thanks.

I kept my mouth shut because I learned from childhood you don't rock the boat. You basically wait until the problem goes away. Although it never goes away unless it's addressed - it's just shoved down under where it festers and continues to create more R problems.

Bingo #2
CD's M in 46 words

I do believe setting our healthy boundaries does keep their issues from doing the damage to us. If they don't address the issue you keep drawing the boundary. Eventually you may have to tell them you will leave if they don't fix the issue.

I never learned how to draw boundaries. I am learning now. I'm doing it with my W and with myself. The thing to note is this - I can draw boundaries with my W because I don't have a vested interest in having a R with her. The question becomes this - can you draw the boundaries when you're really into someone and have something to lose?

TimeHeals nails this one ^^^^^. It's about losing YOU rather than THEM. If you have to choose who to lose.......

The boundaries I draw with myself have to do with behaviors I have which are not acceptable to me. One of them is my tendency to 'hide' behaviors I think others will find 'wrong'. It's the toxic shame talked about in NMMNG. When I find myself trying to hide something I go 180 and expose it. The really crazy part is this - it's so prevalent that 99% of the things I hide are not behaviors that are inherently 'wrong' or criticisable.
So the work I do is to pay attention to the thoughts that are related to such hiding myself and to allow myself to not hide it. I expose it and find I'm perfectly fine. If people have a problem with it I don't defend or rationalize. I look at their input, then I decide what is best for ME. Then stand my ground because I have made the decision. I have to let go of the fear the other person may not like me, or may leave me, or attack me. That's just being the 'nice guy' who needs that outside validation. I don't need anyone's validation. I'm learning how to self validate and it's unbelievably freeing!

'Getting Real' by Susan Campbell addresses this. It's all about being authentic and putting the real you out there for people to see.

Bingo #3
I never looked at seeting boundaries WITHIN ME! BRILLIANT!
Thanks for this (I apparently need to RUSH SHIP the GETTING REAL book.

Reading doesn't make the changes. Reading gives you the knowledge. Direct application (work in action) is what makes the changes. Enough repetitions and it becomes the new habit.

Bingo #4
I know, I know. I haven't found the "safe person" they refer to. And some of the Exercises are herculean leaps. I may just sign on to their support forum. But, personally, I think I need to do these exercises face to face w/ someone. I need the added difficulty but RELEASE of face to face. How did you do them?

[CD Bear]

can you draw the boundaries when you're really into someone and have something to lose?

You always have something very important (the most important thing in your life) to lose if you do not maintain healthy boundaries: yourself and your happiness.

TH, note the Kudo's to this response in my post above.

Brilliant.

Thanks.