New Game- Exposed

[steady]

Thanks for that last post Puppy. Excellent stuff there.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

There is only one no-fault state and that is NY.

That is not correct.


Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I took notes even on things that didn't seem to matter. Some of those things I used later on, so it was a good thing I had them. I'll give you an example. Back in March my W sent me an email inviting me to spend the night at the house with her and the kids so we could wake up and do Easter morning together. Of course, I declined.

When she tried to get a restraining order against me last month based on an incident where the police came to our house in January I was able to produce a copy of the overnight invite. The judge was very interested in it - and even admonished my W a bit. Said, "You're telling me about an incident that happened in January and here I have an email where you're inviting him to sleep over in March."

Like I said, take good notes.

Niiiice.





Puppy

[CityGirl]

I live in NY and an affair has LOTS to do with support if you play things the right way!

It's a crime in NY and no criminal wants a trial if they can avoid it. Works out just fine

My H underestimated me in EVERY sense of the word. Big boy games, big boy consequences. And if the cheater thinks they won't have to reimburse their spouse for squandered funds on an affair while married, well, NY doesn't like that either.

[CD Bear]

You understand the process we are speaking of and what we need to get at, meaning the "disease". Back up a bit....go ahead and list some of the oversimplified symptoms. What was number one in her mind?

Here are some excerpts from the ILYBINILWY

"In the past 3 years our relationship has taken a hit for the worst. We have tried to fix it many times and it still is not ever where it was. We used to love each other, talk normally to each other. Since we decided to have Calla things have completely changed. You have said and blamed many things on our relationship. Your job, Reno's, your new job, the house, calla, money..... truth is these are all regular things in life. "

"He would tell me he loved me,and I felt it. He would tell me things to make me feel wanted, needed, secure. Those things are non existent now. I don't understand. What did I do. Why did everything stop. When I found out I was having D every things stopped."

"I have fallen out of love with you... Our relationship priorities are gone... I need things you don't need...I need sex, love and desire. You have told me it will change many times. It has yet to change. I cant do this anymore. I don't think I want this anymore. The flame is burnt out. It crushes me this didn't work out, I never wanted this to end this way."

She finished the letter with this (and this was two weeks AFTER I now know she spent a weekend with OM in hotel)

"I think we need to talk, I need your help as a friend. I don't want a fight or a yelling match, I just need you to understand where I'm coming from. I would like to hear your thoughts and feelings on this relationship and what we need to do."

So, I believe I am correct in my view that the lack of loving words and actions crushed this. She felt it from her side. So did I. But neither of us knew what to "do". Granted, according to what I just read about N.U.T's (thanks for that. Orderng it)it was still ultimately MY RESPONSIBILITY to keep that going regardless. But the pressure of all the things we were undertaking simultaneously had me a little overwhelmed and I can honestly say I wasn't feeling appreciated or feeling "the love" coming from her either. Regardless, how she felt was how she felt and I was clearly not paying enough attention and/or reading her 'symptoms" correctlly. Yes, it can also be said I likely wasn't "hearing" her or "pursuing more detail" from her. Again, her 'phrasing' cane at me as criticism. But that is MY FAULT, too. Those are MY FILTERS, not hers.

I think you can start to arrive at that crucial step by working on some of the other more mundane things, like communication.
Yep that's right I called communication mundane. Sure it is key in any relationship and any person can become a better communicator but that does not change why we love our spouses.

And, as I said above, this "mundane thing" is costing me right now.
Am I missing your point?

I think the hard inner work that Grit, some others and I will send your way will help you discover is just how much you Love your wife despite her utter and total disrespect for you. It is the part of setting them free but doing so out of Love not out of self satisfaction. You may claim that you have done it but believe me it is not easy.
I am going to give away some thunder here. Right now most people Love their spouse because of what that spouse does for "US" in return. The key to success here is to Love your spouse with no expectation of "anything" in return. You have to remove yourself from the equation of loving her. You have to totally remove your wants and desires from your "LOVE" of her.
This is not done overnite.

When I read the bold piece, I actaully FELT the impact on me!!
It has significantly changed my perspective.
I will watch for THUNDER any chance you feel the desire to help this "relative noob" learn a little quicker.

I sincerely thank you for the bold piece. May have kick-started the "life change" in one simple shot.

[Truegritter]

It is more about being honest with yourself; what YOU value; how you need to identify and support your core values.

Pup I never figured out how to do those little whistle face emoticons

Pretend there are a few right here>>

Missher is starting you down the path...

To the BIGGER thing CD.

Right now most people Love their spouse because of what that spouse does for "US" in return.

Remember this.... it is key.

Most people are not up for the "worse" in "for better or for worse."

Most people don't have the stomach for it.

And

Most people (I include your W in this group) don't expect it either.

Part of this journey for me was really to answer that question that we long to know all our life...

When we choose to love someone...

What does that mean?

This is not something I can tell you CD

Well I can but they will be words.

You must experience this journey.

Experience what love is not to know what it is.

And THAT

...is the real work we do here.

That is where you need your courage.

Step # 1 Detach.

[CD Bear]

"Lighting a path back toward your marriage" is, basically, living out in front of your wife* those changes in yourself -- including your willingness to have a forgiving attitude about her affair, if she ends it -- that give her a glimpse of what an ENTIRELY NEW MARRIAGE with CD Bear would look like, should she choose to want to reconcile with you.
It's "Hey, I'm not looking over my shoulder to see if you're watching me or not, but here I go, down the path, living a new and changed life. I now know thru this that I no longer NEED you -- I'll be OK -- but I WANT you to join me in this, if you want to (and are willing to abide my boundaries."
It's just a fancy way of saying "Show her the new you," so that she has some HOPE if she chooses to come back, that things won't just go back to the same, pre-affair dysfunctional patterns that you may have had in your marriage.

Thanks, Puppy. I have always thought about the bolded pieces above. How can I
"SHOW" this? I would think that this would need to be said somehow. Or is it taking on a new, detached, compassionate "tone" and "listening" interaction in any phone and emails? Similar to what is bolded below? Any other suggestions?

TRUST ME, WOMEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE UP TO. They watch, they hear, they ask around, THEY CHECK UP ON YOU.
...live out your changes in front of them when you DO see them, or interact with them via phone or e-mail. And for those behaviors (like affection, for example) that may be prior marital complaints you can let your interactions with OTHERS be that "light that you shine" in front of them. With your interactions with your kids, or with other adults (esp women!} while in your spouse's presence.

I will be on guard that she is checking up and curious. I realize I'll be doing it for ME but it means I have to begin engaging the new behaviours and practicing as soon as possible. Who knows how soon (or if ever-I know) she'l start to look back herself.

Thanks as always for your clarity.

[CD Bear]

Right now most people Love their spouse because of what that spouse does for "US" in return.

Remember this.... it is key.
Most people are not up for the "worse" in "for better or for worse."
Most people don't have the stomach for it. And, most people (I include your W in this group) don't expect it either.

I am on the path. I've been having a chat with a freind of mine. We've been discussing the "mundane" art of communication and "listening" with our spouses/women. I'm already feeling a bit natural with the art of clarifying/finding the question in the statement/validating the feeling "behind" the statement/question. It was an interesting afternoon.

I really appreciated the bolded piece in your last post. It was an interesting addition to Pup's piece on "Shining the Light" and "Trust me, They are Watching"

And now, to show off a little

[steady]

I stand corrected.

On two counts...lol.

[steady]

I live in NY and an affair has LOTS to do with support if you play things the right way!

It's a crime in NY and no criminal wants a trial if they can avoid it. Works out just fine

My H underestimated me in EVERY sense of the word. Big boy games, big boy consequences. And if the cheater thinks they won't have to reimburse their spouse for squandered funds on an affair while married, well, NY doesn't like that either.

I know adultery is a crime. And I thought in order to prove adultery you just about had to have a picture/video of the two people engaged in sex.

Although I imagine some WAS and their OP are dumb enough to actually refer to it in email or text messaging.

I'd be interested to know a little more detail Citygirl. Not specifically your sitch, but how much 'affair' proof do you actually need in order to get court action?