tired of this

[Puppy Dog Tails]

LRT, that's another really good one. Saying "Hmm, it doesn't sound like we're going to agree about this right now; let me think about that and we can discuss it later when we each have more time" or something is a great technique.

I added that first part because the key to these techniques is to FIRST let the person know that they HAVE BEEN HEARD, even if you disagree with what it is you've heard them say.

"I hear you saying that you feel ________ . I understand. My feeling is __________ , I feel strongly about it, and it sounds like we're going to have to agree to disagree about this right now. Let me think about it some more. We can talk more about this later."

Puppy

[LRT Land]

Puppy - how about starting a new thread and posting a summary of your story? You've been so helpful to everyone - give us a chance to return the favor.

[DanF]

Hang in there AG. You are doing GREAT and getting great advice from our friends here. This stuff isn't easy, so don't beat yourself up too much over it. Recognize where you fell short and endeavor to do it right next time.

Lord knows I have made MANY mistakes.

[A_goodman]

You guys are really good for me. I was tired last night and I guess I was just feeling a little low. I know I have to stay positive about myself. I know I have a long row to hoe. And since I'm not dead, I'm going to have emotions that play havoc sometimes with my "cool". I especially anticipate this as we get farther along. Either way, I expect some emotional conflict.

Either she's going, which will be hard on me. I tend to get nostalgic and it won't be easy walking away from 17 years of my life. There's a lot of good memories from that. At least now I know that I plan on making that walk if need be with my head held high. Also, I don't plan to call myself "left behind". No, I'm walking forward. You won't be able to find me by going back to where we were. I'll be long gone.

The other alternative is she stays. Then I have a long road of enforcing my boundaries. I think she has been happily ignoring the subject; and that's ok for now. I want her to freely decide on this path, because she's got some serious changes to make before we can start forging ahead. Luckily, I'm using my time wisely and makeing my changes now.

It is going to be hard either way. On both of us.

I can't promise I won't belly-ache from time to time. At least I know I can count on you guys to straighten me out when I need it.

Thanks again.

[pinhead]

If there's ever a place where we should be able to bellyache, it's here. Far better than in front of our spouses!

[A_goodman]

Thanks PH.

[A_goodman]

OK,

I am having a little difficulty with the emotions today. No real reason for it. Had a good wknd. Went on an outing W/ the kids that W decided to join us on. It was fun, although, I think I have come to enjoy them better sans W. When it's just the three of us, I feel more free and happy. There's less stress for sure W/O the constant reminder of where we are. Plus we're all boys so we just fly by the seats of our pants and have fun. If they want to jump in the lake and swim, I just stop the car and we go do it w/o having to worry about all the things She does.

For instance, we got to our destination and she spent 10 minutes fretting over all the trash the boys had left in the van. It was comical, it was 100+ degrees outside and she's climbing around the van tidying up. I gave her the keys and turned to go inside. She got pissy about it and I told her: "look, we just drove 3 hours to get here and I don't want to stand in the sun watching you clean the car out. I'll be inside with the kids when your done". She of course felt like I shouldn't just stand around watching and should want to help her. In my mind, they were going to re-trash it on the way home, so the sensible thing was to make them clean it out when we got there. Plus, we had been waiting to get here, why not get to it right away. so I left her to it. She was mad, but got over it. The doormat is gone!

She went out both Thursday night (dancing) and Friday night (dinner and a movie W/ best friend). I blew it off both nights without much emotion. Ditto for the pursuer!

For some reason, today I am getting angrier as the day goes on. I read DanF's post and got really pissed about his impending financial sitch. I was mad already, but in replying to his post, I started really focusing on what is happening to me now and what may lie in my future. It's really not the same either. My W works and makes slightly less than me. We are both highly educated in marketible professions and both have secure positions. So I know I'll fare a little better than Dan, yet it still goes all over me that the system is set up the way it is.

SHE is the sole reason that this is happening. I know that statement is not very empathetic and totally invalidates her "feelings". I realize and accept my culpability. Although her original and onging history revisions and inability to pinpoint concrete needs that are going unmet at MC make it difficult to understand exactly what I'm culpable of. regardless, I understand that I had a big part to play.

But still, it makes me really angry some days that she is so damned selfish that she is risking everything we've worked for, everything we've meant to each other and most importantly the future wellbeing of our boys just for some selfish idea that she'll "finally" be happy. It's BS.

When my kid wants to quit a sports team for whatever reason, we tell him: tough. You joined something and you have to fulfill your committment. the others are counting on you and you have to stick it out. Is that such a hard idea? That's what I equate this to childishness. Selfish childishness.

I'm glad I have this forum. I can get this stuff off my chest here and continue to play it cool at home. But I am really starting to dislike W for all this BS she's visited on me and potentially will visit on our boys.

The train is warming up and the conductor is starting to glance at his watch.

[SMM23]

I have not read your whole thread, YET, but this last entry is an exact carbon copy of what I am going through. Except, at least you have her in counciling. My W said she would only go so it would not hurt my feelings. Not sure exactly what that meant but I knew she was not going to try so I saved my money. Although her need to be "free" and "happy" is the same as yours. I will try to go back and read the rest of your thread and maybe learn somethnig and maybe be able to help a little.

[LRT Land]

Goodman - I think you should read the part in DR about looking for signs to see if what you are doing is working. Maybe there are small clues you are missing. I think the fact your W came on a family outing is huge - to me that means she's still got a foot in the door.

Try not to focus on the finances even though it's scary and painful and makes you see red. I am the higher earner. I would take a hit in the short-term I am sure, but I also know that the courts these days do not just split things 50/50. I had a friend who earned a 1/3 of what her H made - maybe even 1/4. She initiated the D. She did not get alimony and they share custody 50/50 and she gets miniscule child support. Anyway, I say don't focus on the finances because it will detract you from your goal, which is to have a M that works for both of you or end it civily so you can move on to the R that is right for you.

It is so hard to live in limbo. I know - I've done it for years and never moreso than than last several weeks. Live your life the way YOU choose to live it - be the best partner YOU can be - and if she climbs on your train then HURRAY! And if not, you will be better off in the end.

[DanF]

For instance, we got to our destination and she spent 10 minutes fretting over all the trash the boys had left in the van. It was comical, it was 100+ degrees outside and she's climbing around the van tidying up. I gave her the keys and turned to go inside. She got pissy about it and I told her: "look, we just drove 3 hours to get here and I don't want to stand in the sun watching you clean the car out. I'll be inside with the kids when your done". She of course felt like I shouldn't just stand around watching and should want to help her. In my mind, they were going to re-trash it on the way home, so the sensible thing was to make them clean it out when we got there. Plus, we had been waiting to get here, why not get to it right away. so I left her to it. She was mad, but got over it. The doormat is gone!

Glad to hear the doormat is gone AG!!! My W is the same way, it has to be done her way and when she wants it to. In my case, I don't even see it most of the time and she doesn't ask for help. She just does it and then complains about it. This is her issue and she wants to lay it on you!

She went out both Thursday night (dancing) and Friday night (dinner and a movie W/ best friend). I blew it off both nights without much emotion. Ditto for the pursuer!

I'm with you here too man! She went out on Sat nite until 2 or 3am and I don't have any idea what she did. She doesn't tell me and I don't ask. Go live the life you missed while we were raising kids. I'm sure it will be a good replacement for your family.

I realize and accept my culpability. Although her original and onging history revisions and inability to pinpoint concrete needs that are going unmet at MC make it difficult to understand exactly what I'm culpable of. Regardless, I understand that I had a big part to play.

Same here, which makes me believe that we really aren't that culpable and maybe it has more to do with unrealistic expectations and childhood fantasies.

But still, it makes me really angry some days that she is so damned selfish that she is risking everything we've worked for, everything we've meant to each other and most importantly the future wellbeing of our boys just for some selfish idea that she'll "finally" be happy. It's BS.

This is starting to make me really angry too. It's a f-ing PIPE DREAM. Once we are gone, they will be happy?? Really....I doubt it. If this D really goes through to the end and our financial situation collapses, I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive her. I'm starting to get there already.

The train is warming up and the conductor is starting to glance at his watch.

ALL ABOARD! This train is leaving the station!

Hang tough AG. I appreciate all of your support and hope I can do the same for you.

Am I just being petty or unrealistic myself?