Quote: I can hear him from where I'm sitting and he says "No, I stopped taking them". So when he gets off the phone I ask him when he stopped taking his anti-depressants.
He said after his first appointment with the Psychiatrist he cut back and then off. He hadn't said a WORD about this to me. He'd mentioned the doc advising him to have bloodwork done (liver function), and said he didn't want to be on them forever, but he didn't breathe a word of this plan to go off of them.
Youch! I think we've seen cases where going off the ADs was a bad idea. Did he go off on the doc's advice, or his own desire to be off them?
Quote: I asked him why he didn't tell me and he kind of shuffled around it, he forgot
I didn't call him on it, but I should have. Perhaps I will.
I believe, based on A LOT of previous evidence, that he didn't tell me because he was afraid I wouldn't approve or would make an issue of it, he was afraid of my reaction, so he hid it.....
I'm an expert on this one... Conflict avoidance! I think it may be time for one of those "Honey, I'm very concerned about your going off the meds because of things I've read, and would like to talk to you about it" discussions.
Quote: THIS IS THE SAME OLD PATTERN FOLKS. :
This man has the memory of 10 women, he doesn't "forget" a whole heck of a lot.
What's the same old pattern, the conflict avoidance?
Okay, let's assume it really is conflict avoidance. What does that tell you? It sounds to me like he isn't feeling like he can talk to you about this. That's not necessarily because he's intentionally pulling away - it could be because he hasn't leveled-out now that he's off the meds. What can you do to make the meds discussion "safe" for him? How can you show him he can talk to you about these things?
Quote: Then late last week we get a phone call (machine picks up)..."Hi CJ this is S...my home phone is.....and my work number is....."
I take him the message, ask who it is. He says YOU KNOW S...(she worked in HR at his old job...had given him some leads on jobs at the College). Ok
Good that he told you.
Quote: She calls again tonight from home. I bring the phone to CJ and ask if he's going to return her call (she sounded more urgent this time, as if he hadn't gotten back to her).
He calls her (must have had her home number somewhere in the stack of papers around him, or on his computer??) and from where I'm working in the kitchen I can hear some of his end of the conversation.
Very friendly, but about jobs, gossip, him being a reference for her for a new job opening. Something about a possible job there for him (..."yeah I could do the job, but would I Want to?)
Hard to really know what's going on from the bits and pieces you've heard. Lately, the BB has been littered with false assumptions.
Quote: Some laughter...at one point (I'll whack MYSELF for this one!!!) I would bet that she asked him if he'd had any interesting dreams lately...becaue he kind of chuckled and said ..."No, not lately"...I KNOW, I KNOW that could be in reference to anything.
You've already whacked yourself. I think I can speak for others on the BB in thanking you for keeping us from having to find our 2x4s.
Why do you think that was what she asked?
Quote: But clearly she knows about the course he's in...he mentioned being busy with it, but not describing it as he would to someone who didn't know what he was up to.
Sounds like they've already spoken to each other. We don't know what all was said, or if they've already spoken about the job leads, etc.
Quote: I guess after what I felt like a lie of ommission about his meds, this "friendly chat" just got my back up.
And when I asked him what the call was about all he said (at first) was that she asked him for a reference. (They spoke for about 10 minutes).
Sounds like more conflict avoidance. Could be that he's taking a "male" view, and feels like that was the only thing of substance discussed.
Quote: He asked if I was OK later (i guess I was quiet?) and for some reason I said "yeah, just thinking about what I want to do"...which was partially true. So I did most of the recycling...but then CJ came up and finished it. Like trying to make amends or something?
More conflict avoidance, but shoe on other foot. Sounds like he realizes you're upset, and was trying to "fix" it.
Quote: Now do I bring any of this up? If I had to choose it would be the meds issue...
Shiny
Hmmmmmm. I'd vote a slightly reserved yes. With him being off the meds, I'd try to choose a time when he's in a good mood and receptive so you have better odds of a constructive discussion. I'd recommend keeping the discussion short, voicing your concerns and reasoning without blaming or being judgemental, and finding something positive to soften it with.
Disclaimer: I really suck at communications, so you should probably seek some advice from other people as well.
First of all, for someone who "sucks" at communication, you do a pretty damn find job of it on the BB, CHL!!
Your points are all duly noted and appreciated. Yes the same ole, same ole IS conflict avoidance. Big time.
Why the dream topic came to mind is that this is an interest that both CJ and I share. It's something I talk about to a select few others, my sis, students sometimes (their dreams, not mine). I suppose it sounded like an answer I would give if someone asked me that question, but I didn't want to discuss it. Just a bunch of mind-reading, really.
So yes, good timing and careful wording is definitely in order here.
Morning Shiny - looked at your thread a little and don't believe that I could add much to Cool's response, but I do 2nd everything he said.
as to being ticklish - When C and I first got married, when we were shopping, she would reach over and give me a kiss either on the neck or the ear. I too would kinda push up my shoulder and pull away some, but not far enough to break contact with her. If I was walking though I would come to a complete stop until she was done. I really miss that now. Same on a foot massage - I am doing that to C alot and she really loves it as well as a back and shoulder rub. I am ticklish some too - although I can generally hide it and C thinks I am not ticklish at all - but firm contact and heavier touches are not as ticklish as a lighter touch.
I agree with you that mixing it up and making it more "fun" is very important. I think that the "fun" physical contacts, the "fun" public displays of affection; and other "fun" things you do together are a great way to reconnect. Keep that going. I do see lots of positives in your sitch. Taking the phone call while you were there and not trying to hide his side of the conversation is a big positive.
Sounds like more conflict avoidance. Could be that he's taking a "male" view, and feels like that was the only thing of substance discussed.
Often times, I'd look at a conversation and see the substantive part as the emotional part of the conversation. My husband would look at it as though the substantive part was the fact exchange.
Often when I used to ask him about the conversation he had with someone, he'd tell me only about the facts, not the emotional part. I always felt he was holding stuff back, lies through ommision.
Man...such a simple explanation!
Thanks Mr. Cool.
And I agree with Shiny, you contribute a lot to us. I learn so much reading your posts.
Quote: Often times, I'd look at a conversation and see the substantive part as the emotional part of the conversation. My husband would look at it as though the substantive part was the fact exchange.
Often when I used to ask him about the conversation he had with someone, he'd tell me only about the facts, not the emotional part. I always felt he was holding stuff back, lies through ommision.
P used to be the same way. She'd want to know every detail of a conversation. I'd just hit the hightlights because I couldn't remember everything that was said. Used to frustrate the hell out of her.
Sometimes I think about the communication difference in the exaggerated example of the "King of the Hill" cartoon where the guys are standing around, drinking a beer, saying 'yup'. It's not a real conversation because they don't feel the need to fill the gap.
Today the phone rang and it's some guy from Revenue Canada...our IRS!!!
I took down the message, (machine caught it), CJ walked in asking if it was for him. I said yes it was revenue Canada...have you been working on the taxes?
He said YES...but folks, I really, really doubt this. He's been working 24/7 on this job application, has NOT left the house to speak with the accountants he hired (or so he said) 2+ years ago to deal with this.
I said "are you being audited?" But he just mumbled something I couldn't hear as he walked away. He took the guys name and number but said he wasn't going to call right away?
This just stinks....I know for sure that he didn't file his taxes last year. As for the years between 1999 (when he overpaid) and now I cannot say.
I think we need to have a talk. At least his job application has to be sent within the hour so that will be out of the way.
Shiny
P.S. Thanks for the insights, Ogda. I know a firmer touch is needed for the ticklish. I try very much not to make my touches too light. He seems to just anticipate it tickling and often flinches away before I even get there.
Hi Shiny, I'm sorry I don't have time to make a proper reply, but I want to caution you about stepping into the role of "Mom" or his perception of an overzealous caretaker, especially when comes to the meds (due to personal experience) and the taxes. Sometimes you have to let them lie in the bed they make, so long as you protect yourself from being directly affected by the repercussions.
Oh ... and ... from Jeannine:
Quote: But more and more, I'm beginning to believe that it is indeed a "male thang".
I guess that would make CAW the expection to the rule. I get the same response when I ask about a call, whether its from one of her daughters, her mother, friend, whoever. I think she just looks at it as me being nosy.
Returned a phone call to my pal J (of the darts couple) which quickly degenerated into her yelling at me and both of us agreeing never to speak again!
Poor thing, she's been systematically driving friends away for years yet has NO insight into her own role in this. She's the type of friend who keeps track of how often you call, how often you go over, how quickly (or slowly) you return messages.
I mean they used to have a sign in sheet and harrangue people when they missed a night (we;re talking about a friendly game of darts in their basement here!).
This past summer all three of J's boys (now men) stopped speaking to her (she does the control/guilt/yelling thing with them too), many friends drifted away. Then her Mom died (good thing they'd repaired a 10 YEAR no-speaking rift!).
Of all the pals, I've been the one to stick up for her (kind of reminds me of my Mom), tolerate, keep in touch...but man I let her have it when she yelled at me.
She called right back saying she didn't want to lose my friendship (sobbing at this point), but her every action is pushing people away.
So I e-mailed her H, just so he'd have a more balanced picture (she shares ALL with him and I worry about him sometimes too).
