tired of this

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I think listening can be very revealing. Most people have a need to fill silence - especially in tense/awkward situations.

Oh, definitely! Especially us "Pleaser"/"Rescuer" types!


Puppy

[LRT Land]

Goodman - did you listen and if so what did you hear??

[A_goodman]

Well, yes. I listened. It was funny actually. W had made a comment after the last session about me seeming to dominate most of the talking for the last few sessions, and I had told her that I was totally going to dummy up and let her take it. So when we got in there he goes: “ok who wants to start?” I deferred and she told him I had said what I said. He thought that was curious, so I explained that I had been doing the majority of the growing and wanted to focus more on her. He mentioned that I had really uncovered a lot and he thought I HAD grown a lot. (Thank you guys for the help)

He turned to her and asked what had happened this week. She said that almost all of the anger and resentment that she felt from me had gone over the last week starting the week before. She said: “Actually, it’s like he doesn’t give a [censored] at all anymore.” So I had to reiterate that I actually did care a lot what happened, but that I was in the stage of acceptance of whatever she decides. He asked what that meant and I gave the train example. I told her that I love her, and it would be better for everyone involved if we can work this out, but that I was unwilling to live with her if she didn’t want to be with me.

He then focused on what happened 10 years ago to start her (supposed) unhappiness and “grieving for he loss of our close personal relationship” . She talked about what was going on in our lives and although she couldn’t remember feeling that they were the causes at the time, she surmises that they were. Then he focused on the EA in 07 and what caused that. Again she could not pinpoint what she was feeling at the time, but gave some guesses. Then on to now and what was going on at the outset of this episode. Without writing another book, I’ll say that the causes changed from time to time and now the causes are 180 deg out of phase with the first set of causes. Some things I heard were things that I didn’t know had affected her at all and I felt remorse. But I’m still confused and I said as much. I pointed out that the needs she is claiming were unmet have flip-flopped over time, such that I was acting recently in a way that would have been successful in avoiding her feelings of loss back then and was acting then in a way that would have avoided this. It still doesn’t jibe to me. I said I still haven’t got a good feel for what needs exactly I was failing to meet.

He said: ‘Ok W, what do you need?” So she said the number one thing I don’t give her is emotional honesty. Emotional honesty. She said that she felt that our life together was a sham, because I wasn’t open about my feelings all those years. We’d discussed this last time. Basically, the only feelings I kept from her were the ones that I knew (or suspected) would cause a fight or maybe hurt her feelings. In the session, this was the only time I lost my cool. I didn’t get mad, but I did argue and invalidate her a little. Eventually I got control of myself and went back to listening. OH how close I was to pointing out the irony of her calling me dishonest. But I didn't. That's a victory in itself for the new JoeCool.

So, because I was a Pu$$ for all those years, she felt like our life was a sham. I don’t get it. It does not make any sense, but if that’s it I guess that’s what I go on. So I told her: “well, at least that won’t be a problem any more, since my days as your doormat are over.”

So everything should be golden now right? I’m not holding my breath.

It was almost over at this point. MC is a cleaver guy. He says: “Well ok. The way he is is your chief problem and bein the way you are (to me) has been your way of avoiding anxiety, so it would seem like an incompatible combination, yet you have stayed together for 17 years. There has to be more under the surface that compensates for this. There must be some part of his way that you need or desire. Likewise, there must be some things about W that compensates for this anxety.”

Of course, I added that the anxiety was rapidly disappearing. I don’t think he believes me, but between his theory and Ws opening comment I’d have to go with W on that.

I’m finding it easier to interact with her without having to force a stone face. I can mirror her mood, but I’m just not feeling anything really towards her. It’s like she is just there. I will not pick the rope back up based on anything besides “I love you. I’m sorry for what I did to you and I want to make a happy marriage with you.” but I am happy about all the growth and personal enrichment that’s going on in the mean time.

[LRT Land]

Bravo.

[pinhead]

I will not pick the rope back up based on anything besides “I love you. I’m sorry for what I did to you and I want to make a happy marriage with you.” but I am happy about all the growth and personal enrichment that’s going on in the mean time.

That, my friends, is one hell of a boundary, and a self affirmation.

[A_goodman]

Well pinhead, I wish I was worthy of the praise. Tonight I had a minor setback. W is out dancing with her girlfriends. She asked me this time; which is a departure or late.

Anyway, when she got home from work (late as usual), I was boiling water to make the kids dinner. They wanted to go out, but I told them to ask mom. We ended up going out for a nice pizza pie. Everything was cool until I remembered my son telling me something weird yesterday. He said that W told him she was getting a new phone in Dec and he could have her old one. Now, we agree that he dosen't need a cel phone. He's 12. I know, were not typical in today's day and age. Anyway, she has an I-phone 2nd generation. I absolutely do not want my son to have the WWW at his fingertips inthe middle of puberty. So I asked her about it. Of course, S was stretching a little. She said if he keeps his grades all above Bs ( I told him straight As originally). It chapped me a bit. Then she said "I'm due for an upgrade in dec anyway". That struck me weird and I said what does that mean? Why are you DUE an upgrade. Truly it was just weird to me, but she took it as giving her crap and got a little hostile.

So instead of playing cool, I of course joined the fray a little. Eventually, she started the interigation thing she does so well and I snapped back into place. I said: "you know, I think I said very clearly what I meant". And stopped playing her game. The point is, as tough as I talk, I still experience the wave of emotions sometimes. And I still get baited, although I'm getting better at realizing it.

We had been on the way to get ice cream for the kids and she said she needed to get money for tonight anyway. So I stopped at 7-11 to hit the ATM. When I asked her how much she wanted, she said no she'd go. I realized she was going to take it out of her acct. That kind of went all over me. I had to fight to keep from showing my anger and hurt. This money thing is pissing me off more and more. I know I told her that I would table some of my boundaries until MC wrapped up and she reached a decision, but it's hard.

So here I sit. Worked out and showered and alone with my thoughts. I'm ashamed that sometimes I still hurt about this. I will not pursue, so in reality, the rope is still dropped, but the emotions sometimes still flare up and I get scared I won't be tough when the end comes.

I gotta pray on this. I will need His strength

[A_goodman]

I guess really, I didn't blow the boundary you were talking about. I still believe that has to happen or all bets are off.

I know I can wait a little longer to enforce my boundaries. It just hacks me off to have to. I want her to affirm that she wants on this train. If she does that, she knows what the fair and the rules of the road will be.

The train is leaving the platform wether she gets on or not. I just hate waiting to see what she's going to do.

You know, just journaling tonight out made me feel a lot better. A lot stronger.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Goodman,

RE: the cellphone fight. Here's a line I like to use often, that's very good at diffusing things (my wife and I are BOTH terrible fighters):

"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought we were allowed to disagree with each other."

So many times when we fight, we start yelling past each other, and dismissing each other's feelings on the subject at hand. Just a simple line drawn that establishes our position seems to help -- "Yes, I hear you that you want _________. What I'm saying is, I happen to DISAGREE with that, which I thought was OK. Now, do you want to talk about that, or keep screaming at each other?"

Puppy

[pinhead]

Goodman,

You did fine. DB'ing isn't about turning into Spock. You're going to have minor setbacks, and minor improvements. It's the overall direction that matters, and unfortunately, you won't know for a long time (R wise). You'll know about your own personal growth though.

[LRT Land]

My H and I also have a hard time working through disagreements. For me, it helps to say "let me think about that" and then discuss it later when things are less heated.

I still think you are doing great. There are ups and downs in any R and in most parts of life. Just keep your end goal in mind - to be happy and be the best person you can be.