WAH and LBW separated and dark

[DumpedforMIL]

What are you both losing?

You really need to define this.

the obvious to me is that i've lost a good friend.
i've lost a marriage.
i've lost the person who i wanted to spend the rest of my life with.

but i also lost who i was in the process.
i've worked on regaining the real me.
i feel like i'm just a machine, doing things.
the thing i discovered about myself is that often times i feel like it's my job to bring out the best in everybody.
and i love doing it.

and that's what i bring to the table. that's what makes me valuable.

a lot of times, i focus on others and bringing out the best in others. during this time to myself, others have brought out the best in me.

squash brought out the athlete in me - i was never involved in sports in high school. look at me now. i joke about wearing the cute shorts and skirts to squash but i honestly do believe that the top players have helped me out because they see that i'm trying. and they make me work my butt off on the court until i get it right. they've challenged me physically. it was the only way to get better.

living on my own and the baking class brought out the chef in me. i'm a darn good cook.
i learn to cook healthy and eat well doesn't mean eating expensive. i learned to manage my budget and still eat healthy.
i'm in great shape, i haven't gotten sick (knock on wood), and i know that i have to take care of me cuz nobody else will.
in the fall, i plan on taking a leadership course for professional development. i can't wait to see what i can do there.
all this has challenged me mentally. it was the only way to make me stronger.

this forum has challenged me emotionally. allow me to talk about my past, how it has affected me, how i react to things. like the thing my dad has said to me in the past, how it has affected me. why the 'gold digger' comment bothers me so much that i couldn't let it go. everyone wondered why. and now you know. it's been really eye opening.

i don't want to stop living or growing. life is too much fun and when it is that much fun, i want to bring someone along for the ride. it seems so selfish to be enjoying all of this yourself.

i want someone to hold my hand as we jump off the deep end into adventure, and someone willing to work hard at being together. so .. who wants to hold my hand when we take the big leap? at the moment, nobody. and that's what i've lost. that person who's hand i would hold on to while taking the big leap.

i don't know what he is losing - that would be mind reading.
but he's definitely losing out on someone who would have made life adventurous. someone who would have brought out the best in him.

you know, forrest .. when you gave me that 30-day challenge, i thought it was about rediscovering who i was and working on making me the best person i can be. you told me to only talk about myself. no h, no ILs. just me.

so i focused on things i did. squash, baking, who did i help today, who smiled back when i smiled, what did i do differently today?

and i worked hard on that thinking, forrest is challenging me. this is how you get me to do work - you challenge me.

i forgot about the statement. i didn't quite understand what the statement was for or how it fit into this plan. but i figure you would guide me to that later.

my 30 days has expired. i want you to know i didn't half-ass attempt the challenge. i really did try and i didn't do it to save my m. i did it for me. i'm still on shaky ground. i am better than before but not quite there yet. i don't have much time either. i have not seen him in almost three weeks. but i continue to do what i want to do - work hard, play hard.

[DumpedforMIL]

I find you interesting.. was that not enough?

no, but someone finds me physically attractive.

"even though i've ranted about it in the past, it's not what i really want."

What do you want? Why are you failing at figuring out what you want?

in the past, i've ranted about how maybe i should just go find someone and have a one night stand.
and that's not what i want. you put this guy in front of me and suddenly, i don't want to do this guy and i don't want this guy to do me. eww. what i'm saying is, not just any guy will do.

i have to leave it at that for now.

Who are you?

i am d4mil. and i have standards.

see lengthy post above. it gives you a glimpse of what i am capable of, what i like to do.

but it's late and it's time to go to bed.

[DumpedforMIL]

journaling ..
pep talk last night was good.
met with my l today. that was surprisingly good.
although i am a bit torn. i need my vets' help.
i have three options.
1. we are waiting for more info from h's side. so the wait and see option.
2. we take action and propose a settlement.
-> 2a. i go talk to my h without ls and say can we work out a deal without the ls?
-> 2b. my l and i come up with a proposal and fire it over to their camp.
3. set a date for a 5-way meeting with mediator.

those are my options.
my l was really good. i did not tear him a new one.
we are on the same page. he understands that i'm using my head and not my heart anymore.
i gave him my best and worst case scenario.
my l is suggesting i go the 2a. route. he said here's your chance to talk to your h. you will find out where his head is at. and maybe you will have a better idea of whether reconciliation is possible or not. who knows. plus, no lawyers are involved, no legal costs to you. just say look, the numbers look like this. maybe we can work something out ourselves.

i think we all know i'm still not ready for that conversation yet. the thought of meeting with him to talk makes me nervous. i just know that i'll dig away, mind read, and every rule will be broken. i have worked on myself but i have not worked on my speech/statement.

what do i do?

[Coach]

what do i do?

what's your goal? work backwards from there, what are the steps, contingencies

what prep work on yourself needs to be accomplished so you can work the plan effectively?

check your expectations at the door, have your boundaries, know the ROE, and "lovingly detach."

you can handle it.

ps. stop thinking like this, it gives you an excuse

i just know that i'll dig away, mind read, and every rule will be broken

[DumpedforMIL]

what's your goal? work backwards from there, what are the steps, contingencies

i think first .. i need to decide which option is best for me/us right now. is it really 2a?

his camp sent us financial statements without proof/backup documentation to show the actual numbers. i have all my proof for them. so we are good on our side. i still need to see his proof to make sure the numbers are not picked out of the air.

what prep work on yourself needs to be accomplished so you can work the plan effectively?

i have spoken to him in a while. i saw him for the first time in three weeks yesterday and he gave me an obligatory wave from his car as he drove by me. but i haven't had much practice talking to him.

check your expectations at the door, have your boundaries, know the ROE, and "lovingly detach."

if we meet at a starbucks or something. just go over some stuff, and if it gets heated or disrespectful, then i thank him for his time, get up, and walk out.

i don't know if he's still acting on his emotions. does it matter? it might. because if he is, then i have to resort to 2b. there is no point in talking to someone who is acting/thinking with emotions. i've really gotten past that stage and i'm looking at this from a business standpoint. do you want to continue to incur legal fees? i don't. so can we work this out like adults?

the numbers speak for themselves. you cannot argue the math. it shows that i was being very fair when i asked for a 50/50 split. i could be vindictive and nit pick at everything. but i care more about the people around me than the numbers on the financial statements. i don't want to see them hurt anymore. people are more important than material things. they are more important than your retirement plan, your stock options, your frequent flyer points, and your priceless baseball collection. they are more important than spousal support.

you said to me at the start of all this that i only wanted to win. walking away with 50% doesn't make me the winner because look at the price that was paid to get this 50%? look at all the people who got hurt in the process. it wasn't just about you and me.
if i'm not the winner, i guess that means you won. congratulations.

ps. stop thinking like this, it gives you an excuse

compassion is used to battle those thoughts. right, coach?

my rant above .. is spoken in a calm tone. i don't want to accuse anybody of anything. i just want to speak from my point of view.

can you sense any digging or mind reading in the above? it needs fine tuning.

[DumpedforMIL]

if i'm not the winner, i guess that means you won. congratulations.

hmm, that was a dig.
doesn't matter how you say it. that was a dig. my bad.

l told me this was my chance to extend an olive branch to h. he said if it doesn't work, then walk away knowing you tried.

so i have to get this right.

[Forrest Gump]

Well.. catching up.

"but i realize that i haven't let go yet. i'm not ready."

So.. what are you ready for?

"it's not a competition.

it's not who i am."

But based on what you have told us.. it seems your marriage was competitive.

Being that way is a part of you.

You choose someone who fueled that.

It got boring and overwhelming for one of you.

Why?

What changed?

"the obvious to me is that i've lost a good friend."

Since the beginning this has always been a big part of why you want to make this work. This is what I like. Why are you treating him different than you would a friend? Take away the "relationship". What would you do if this was just a friend?

"i've lost a marriage."

Is this really a bad thing? Have you not known for a while that something needed to change? Why did you not do anything until it was "too late"?

"but i also lost who i was in the process."

Really.. just with him saying "I want out"? Or has it been a slow "loss"?

"i feel like i'm just a machine, doing things."

This is normal. And expected. The thing is.. even if you do things just because people are telling you too.. they become habits. Even if you just try a tiny bit. "Fake it till you make it" comes to mind.

"the thing i discovered about myself is that often times i feel like it's my job to bring out the best in everybody.
and i love doing it.

and that's what i bring to the table. that's what makes me valuable."

Then you have to realize that even if they think you are doing it for another reason.. that does not change your heartfelt motivation. This is important for you to understand. Your value does not change just because they did not respond in the normal way.

"i don't want to stop living or growing. life is too much fun and when it is that much fun, i want to bring someone along for the ride. it seems so selfish to be enjoying all of this yourself."

This is your turning point. How long are you willing to wait for someone?

"i want someone to hold my hand as we jump off the deep end into adventure, and someone willing to work hard at being together. so .. who wants to hold my hand when we take the big leap? at the moment, nobody. and that's what i've lost. that person who's hand i would hold on to while taking the big leap."

How closely do you resemble this person? How much hand holding are you doing now?

"i don't know what he is losing - that would be mind reading.
but he's definitely losing out on someone who would have made life adventurous. someone who would have brought out the best in him."

See.. you said it correctly. Because of what you have "learned". We have told you not to be a mind reader. But we want you to be the person that you said you are. Be the person he is losing.

Not the one he wants to run away from.

"my 30 days has expired. i want you to know i didn't half-ass attempt the challenge. i really did try and i didn't do it to save my m. i did it for me. i'm still on shaky ground. i am better than before but not quite there yet."

Based on that post above.. I can see that it was not a half-ass attempt. That is more than I hoped for. The thing is.. now you are saying you are on "shaky-ground". You are not saying "there is no hope". You are saying you are better than before. So.. is that not the essence of what DB says? Do things that move you forward. Even if it is a small step.. it means something. I know you are not there yet.. but you are one step closer than you were 30 days ago. How can you expand on your first 30 days of the "challenge"?

"i don't have much time either."

6 months if I recall correctly. That would mean you would be 6 times better than you are now. Heck.. if we cut it in half.. still 3 times better. What could you accomplish if you were 2 times better than what you are now?

"2a. i go talk to my h without ls and say can we work out a deal without the ls?"

Why is the L telling you to do this. Think about it some.

How can you prepare for it?

[Coach]

i think first .. i need to decide which option is best for me/us right now. is it really 2a?

So deciding on a option helps you achieve .......... what?

the numbers speak for themselves. you cannot argue the math.

Sure you can, don't be naive. The argument is not about the math (logic) it's about how he or you feels. Why do you like option 2A? (makes you feel better - less confrontational and might save money. I know mind-reading but I saw the shot and took it. ) If you want this over then it's easy but if you want to try to reconcile you need to be aware of feelings.

i just want to speak from my point of view.

until you validate and understand his POV you will just keep the same old arguments looping. "seek first to understand then be understood."

So I'll ask again. What's your goal?

[DumpedforMIL]

quick journal .. non-m stuff.
i played like crap last night.
i'm so disappointed in myself.
footwork was bad, shots were bad, and my opponents schooled me in the game. it was as if i couldn't read where the ball was going. i'd be anticipating that it will end up and my opponent puts in the opposite end of the court.
i try to be one step ahead but my opponent can see where i'm going and they go in the opposite direction to fool me. and i got fooled many times last night.
all that work and i didn't apply the skills. where was my head at?
as my squash coach tries to tell me "you have to play more aggressive .. you can't sit back and admire your last shot."
i was not aggressive.
friday is another game night.
everyone is training for an upcoming tournament so the club was packed last night. it was still fun though.

[DumpedforMIL]

So deciding on a option helps you achieve .......... what?

a quick resolution to our separation agreement.
to have it dragged out like that only creates a thicker wall between the two of us.
and dare i say .. one of the options will possibly lead to reconciliation or h and i being on friendlier terms.

Why do you like option 2A? (makes you feel better - less confrontational and might save money. I know mind-reading but I saw the shot and took it. )

haha. you broke your own rule.
i don't know if 2a makes me feel better.
the thought of actually contacting him is scary. almost feels the same way as when i first met him. i was too shy to talk to him. later on, i found out that he was also too shy to talk to me.

If you want this over then it's easy but if you want to try to reconcile you need to be aware of feelings.

i need to be aware of HIS feelings?
i need help in this area because when does "being aware of his feelings" become "mind reading"? for example, i say stuff like "for some reason, he just hates me. like i did something so hurtful to him. more hurtful than cheating."
that's like me predicting his feelings of hate towards me.

until you validate and understand his POV you will just keep the same old arguments looping. "seek first to understand then be understood."

which part of my speech was caught in the endless loop?
i didn't want to validate because i didn't want to make the speech about him. i wanted it to be about me. no accusations towards him. i tried to be careful not to say things like "since you don't care about people .. " or "you obviously value material things over human beings."

how do i seek to understand from their POV without mind-reading? i can look at the sitch from a fish bowl and it will still be me interpreting it the way that i see it. it is still my pov. no? don't i need to hear it from the horse's mouth in order to get a true understanding from his POV?

So I'll ask again. What's your goal?

my first goal is to open the lines of communication again. he has shut down over the years and confided in his mother instead of his wife when there were issues.
this is my biggest challenge.
my second goal is simply to re-establish that friendship we used to have.
it's okay that the marriage is over. i didn't want that back anyway.
i want to start from ground zero again and rebuild. learn from our mistakes.
our friendship may provide a solid foundation leading to reconciliation.
my third goal is to figure out whether i need to go defcon 5. is the anger still raw? can i figure out why this happened from him and his words? i may not get this. but i can list it as a goal.