She's totally cake eating, and she is trying to manipulate this situation into exactly what she wants. I'm thinking back to Coach's philosophy, "do what's right, not what's easy, or what will keep the peace".
Excellent advice. It really is perfect.
Sometimes what we want isn't the best thing, hard as it may seem.
And this, this is a lesson that is the hardest to take to heart.
My IC likened what I was going thru to "chemotherapy" it might kill the marriage or cure it. I (we) ran a marathon in 2007 (26.2 miles) during the training the longest run was 20 miles, everyone who ran a marathon told me I would be fine just trust in your training. Have faith in the process and don't worry about the outcome.
Greek and I are doing another one in Dec. Never would have thought this was possible two years ago. Believe that you can handle it.
"A man prepared has half fought the battle." - Don Quixote
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Yeah, I don't think dating other people and M go together. Being separated is a start and you can perhaps start seeing someone while the D is in process. The intent should be there. You don't want to go getting some woman interested, starting to fall in love with you, and then your WAW says, "cut, time to stop dating other people." No fair to the singles out there. I suppose you could warn those you are dating, or make sure it is very casual (no more than 2 or 3 dates per gal).
I dunno, I don't see it working.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
You want some open and honest and experienced advice? Either go for it or get out asap.
Its called Mid-Life-Crisis. MLC.
Its not for everyone. my only question to you is, why did you not ask her for a am general Hummer after she said that to you?
what she said,
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H, I feel trapped and I don't like it. I'm going to talk it over with <MC> and see if I can figure out why, but in the mean time I don't want to feel like I'm doing something bad if I flirt with someone or spend some time with someone. I'm not looking to have sex with anyone, or get into anything serious, but I just want to be able to go out and have fun."
She said "How about make a deal that we date each other, and maybe other people too, as long as it's just fun and casual, and we each let the other know if anything starts turning serious with someone else?"
She said "H, I feel trapped and I don't like it. I'm going to talk it over with <MC> and see if I can figure out why, but in the mean time I don't want to feel like I'm doing something bad if I flirt with someone or spend some time with someone. I'm not looking to have sex with anyone, or get into anything serious, but I just want to be able to go out and have fun." I said "I've been feeling the same way, I'm tired of dealing with all this, and I wasn't sure what I thought about dating someone else." She said "How about make a deal that we date each other, and maybe other people too, as long as it's just fun and casual, and we each let the other know if anything starts turning serious with someone else?"
Question. When should I play the divorce card? Now? I considered telling her today that if we are going to date other people, then it's silly to still be married, and we need to proceed with the divorce.
That deal works for you but not for me unfortunately, that's what I would have told her. If that's what she really wants, let her go, file for divorce and let her date other people and enjoy this freedom she seems to desperately want. You can't reason with her, not only has she rationalized this as a good thing for her to do but she puts a positive spin on it by saying that you should date to, that way you get out and meet new people and she doesn't have to feel guilty about her actions.
I agree with everything the others have said above, and want to go one step further.
Without being too dramatic, I would contend to you that this is one of those handful of DEFINING MOMENTS in your life. How you respond to this will say everything about your character, your morals, and how high of an integrity bar that you set for yourself.
Think this one over carefully, and then respond with absolute CLARITY to your wife. Every hour that goes by since she lobbed this amoral grenade into your lap, starts to define YOU and what you stand for.
Thanks everyone. I totally agree. Her real motivations are clear now. She was sad and lonely after the breakup with OM, and when she lost me too, she put on the charm to get me back. Because of how I feel about our M, our kids, and her, I made it too easy for her. She didn't have to do any work, and as soon as I showed I expected something from her, she started backing away, slowly of course, so as to not provoke a negative reaction from me. Amazing as I read my posts over the last couple months. She is nowhere near ready or willing to truly reconcile.
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That deal works for you but not for me unfortunately, that's what I would have told her.
As might be painfully apparent in my postings, I am HORRIBLE at thinking on my feet, and she is a MASTER at manipulating conversations.
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Without being too dramatic, I would contend to you that this is one of those handful of DEFINING MOMENTS in your life. How you respond to this will say everything about your character, your morals, and how high of an integrity bar that you set for yourself.
Think this one over carefully, and then respond with absolute CLARITY to your wife. Every hour that goes by since she lobbed this amoral grenade into your lap, starts to define YOU and what you stand for.
Yes Puppy, I feel that way too. Unfortunately, she dropped that bomb just before she left with the kids for a week. I don't want to respond over the phone. When she returns, I leave with the kids for a week of my own, unfortunately to go back home for my Grandmother's funeral. She was a great woman, and I should remember her when I respond to my W. I am planning on having essentially no contact with her while she's gone, then responding next week when she returns, just before I leave on my trip with the kids. Then she can stew on it, without even having the kids to lean on as an emotional crutch.
Here are ideas I've played with on how to respond:
"I've thought about what you said before you left. I've decided it won't work for me. I'm not willing to live in an open marriage while you date other men. From my point of view our reconciliation has failed, and I need to end this marriage. Will you join me at <mediator's> office to get our legal agreement wrapped up? No more anger or resentment, let's just see if we can work out the final details. We were almost there last year. I won't agree to anything less than 50/50 custody though, so if that's going to be an issue, we might as well not waste our time. The court will have to decide that one."
If she backpedals, and indicates that's not what she wants, I know myself, and I will feel compelled to offer her something. How should I handle this? I could just buy a little time and say "I'm leaving for a week, so obviously nothing is going to happen right now. We'll talk when I get back." Or should I just put up a wall and say "You've been right all along W, it just won't work between us. It's time to finally end this."
I'll have more detailed thoughts on your overall plan-of-attack later, but for now I wanted to say about this:
Originally Posted By: futureunknown
As might be painfully apparent in my postings, I am HORRIBLE at thinking on my feet, and she is a MASTER at manipulating conversations.
You need to learn the fine DB art of "I'm not really sure how I feel about that. I'll have to think about it, and get back to you."
or
"I'm not really sure HOW I feel anymore. I still have some more thinking to do."
etc.
It seems like a simple concept, but if you're like me -- a classic "Pleaser"/"Fixer" -- you always feel like you HAVE to have an answer, right then. YOU DO NOT. There's nothing wrong with deferring until a later date and time.
What is brutally and shockingly apparent to me now is how my W responds to treatment. Something I never realized during my M, and is the root of so much of our difficulties. No matter what she SAYS, I know deep down she is terribly guilty over what she did. From December of last year to April of this year I finally said ENOUGH, and pushed her out of my life. I refused to offer her anything of myself. Minimal contact to handle the kids, that's it. I almost completely ignored her at all times. Quite rude in some cases.
And yet, how did she react? She came running back to me, and kissed me passionately when she saw the chance. She never mentions how I treated her, never uses it as fodder for resentment. Deep down I think she respected me for standing up for myself. Oh, she was p*ssed at first, and oscillated between attacking me (lawsuit), and tempting me, but when none of it worked, she respected me, and her attraction went up.
After I let her back in, I've been warm, charming, flirty, sexual, and even tried to find middle ground regarding the circumstances in our M that preceded her A. And what is result of that? She's distant, picking at the smallest little offenses, feels trapped, is trying to wiggle out of any obligation to me.
I spoke with her mother last night about this, and her mother believes W has such deep seated guilt inside her that she feels attraction to someone who makes her work for love and affection, and feels uncomfortable (unworthy?) when receiving seemingly unconditional love.
Is this someone I could ever have a truly fulfilling R with?
Is this someone I could ever have a truly fulfilling R with?
Yes.
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Deep down I think she respected me for standing up for myself. Oh, she was p*ssed at first, and oscillated between attacking me (lawsuit), and tempting me, but when none of it worked, she respected me, and her attraction went up.
Yep you are unique just like all of us.
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she feels attraction to someone who makes her work for love and affection, and feels uncomfortable (unworthy?) when receiving seemingly unconditional love.
She feels attracted to a man who knows he's deserving of her love and affection and won't just give his love away. She doesn't want to give her love to a man who she doesn't respect. Your view of unconditional love might not match hers, see things from her POV and the light bulb turns on.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
