Looking for help with WAW

[mza8]

W and I have been emailing each other all day about the bank issue with the house. We need to make some decisions regarding the bank with the looming foreclosure. Question I wanted to throw out and ask for opinions. We have to file our taxes and she had indiated last week she would file jointly if we signed an agreement on how the tax return would be handled. My question is should I mentiion this today that I think we should also sign that agreement so we can file or is this too much to put on her today? I'm fine with telling her. I figure since I'm signing one agreement why not sign another at this point.

Sometimes she really doesn't think before she speaks. In her latest email today she said she could ask her attorney (divorce) a question that we are trying to get answered about possible foreclosure. I am waiting for an attorney to call me back today that specializes in foreclosure law. W knows this. Why would she rub it in and mention she could ask her divorce attorney?

Yeah, I know, she's trying to be helpful but it was something I didn't need to hear. Almost like she's saying, oh, since we are getting along now then I'll just call up my attorney and ask this question. Um , no, I don't want to have anything to do with your attorney and I could care less what your attorney has to say about our house questions. Her attorney isn't the right person to talk to anyway. The attorney I'm waiting to talk to is the right person who specializes in this area. Been this way the entire M. I think about things and deal with the right people and she gets her own idea and runs with it even if it makes no sense. Ugh, just venting now.

She also offered to call and follow-up with my foreclosure attorney if I wanted her to. She thanked me and said she appreciated all of the work I've done on this issue today. Just me trying to lead again and do everything...again. I was going to email her back and tell her that I would take her up on her offer to make some phone calls to help find answers to some of our questions. I think she should. I also want to tell her that she should contact the previous real estate agent to inform her that we are not going to relist with her. I feel like why should I do everything now that I bascially told her yesterday that I'm ok if this doesn't work between us.

Am I way off base with this thinking? I'm not trying to be controlling here, I'm really not. I just think that we need to have the right people answering our questions and that she should be helping.

[Steve McQueen]

W and I have been emailing each other all day about the bank issue with the house. We need to make some decisions regarding the bank with the looming foreclosure. Question I wanted to throw out and ask for opinions. We have to file our taxes and she had indiated last week she would file jointly if we signed an agreement on how the tax return would be handled. My question is should I mentiion this today that I think we should also sign that agreement so we can file or is this too much to put on her today?

tell her you want to file separately. what reason do you have not to separate your finances?

Sometimes she really doesn't think before she speaks. In her latest email today she said she could ask her attorney (divorce) a question that we are trying to get answered about possible foreclosure. I am waiting for an attorney to call me back today that specializes in foreclosure law. W knows this. Why would she rub it in and mention she could ask her divorce attorney?

cause she wants to get divorced from you. hint. hint.

I feel like why should I do everything now that I bascially told her yesterday that I'm ok if this doesn't work between us.

Am I way off base with this thinking? I'm not trying to be controlling here, I'm really not. I just think that we need to have the right people answering our questions and that she should be helping.

this was on msn today

A recent study published in the Journal of Family Psychology suggests that for women, dating a less attractive man may result in a happier, more emotionally satisfying relationship.


Researchers from UCLA and the University of Tennessee gathered 82 couples in their mid-twenties who had married in the past year and had been together for almost three years prior, then filmed the couples discussing a personal problem. All the while, a panel of people evaluated who was the better looking individual in each pair. After analyzing the tapes, researchers discovered that in couples where the man was more attractive than the woman, he said often things such as, “This is your problem, you deal with it” whereas the unattractive hubbies were more apt to say things like, “I'm here for you — what do you want me to do? How can I help you?'"

I think you are way off base on the not dating thing and naive about the wife, whom you havent talked to in nine months, not going out on dates.

[Dudess]

In her latest email today she said she could ask her attorney (divorce) a question that we are trying to get answered about possible foreclosure. I am waiting for an attorney to call me back today that specializes in foreclosure law. W knows this. Why would she rub it in and mention she could ask her divorce attorney?

Yeah, I know, she's trying to be helpful but it was something I didn't need to hear.


You characterize it her ‘rubbing it in’, even though you also acknowledge that she was trying to be helpful. You are in the divorce process and you need to deal with that however unpleasant it may be.


Her attorney isn't the right person to talk to anyway. The attorney I'm waiting to talk to is the right person who specializes in this area. Been this way the entire M. I think about things and deal with the right people and she gets her own idea and runs with it even if it makes no sense.

She also offered to call and follow-up with my foreclosure attorney if I wanted her to. She thanked me and said she appreciated all of the work I've done on this issue today. Just me trying to lead again and do everything...again. I was going to email her back and tell her that I would take her up on her offer to make some phone calls to help find answers to some of our questions. I think she should. I also want to tell her that she should contact the previous real estate agent to inform her that we are not going to relist with her. I feel like why should I do everything now that I bascially told her yesterday that I'm ok if this doesn't work between us.

Am I way off base with this thinking? I'm not trying to be controlling here, I'm really not. I just think that we need to have the right people answering our questions and that she should be helping.

So she offered to talk with her attorney and your attorney yet you feel resentful because it seems like you do everything. At the same time, you think she does things wrong, but you resent her for not doing more. So basically, you want her to do more, but do it your way.

I dunno . . . . sound controlling to you?


Resentment is poison to you and your relationships.

[mza8]

tell her you want to file separately. what reason do you have not to separate your finances?

If we file separately we both owe money. If we file jointly we both get a return.

cause she wants to get divorced from you. hint. hint.

Yes, her silence for the past 9 months is a constant reminder.

this was on msn today

A recent study published in the Journal of Family Psychology suggests that for women, dating a less attractive man may result in a happier, more emotionally satisfying relationship.


Researchers from UCLA and the University of Tennessee gathered 82 couples in their mid-twenties who had married in the past year and had been together for almost three years prior, then filmed the couples discussing a personal problem. All the while, a panel of people evaluated who was the better looking individual in each pair. After analyzing the tapes, researchers discovered that in couples where the man was more attractive than the woman, he said often things such as, “This is your problem, you deal with it” whereas the unattractive hubbies were more apt to say things like, “I'm here for you — what do you want me to do? How can I help you?'"

I think you are way off base on the not dating thing and naive about the wife, whom you havent talked to in nine months, not going out on dates.

I read that article too. I would say W and I are your average looking people. So not sure where that puts us?

I know that Coach would probably say to lead, do what is right and ask her how I can help. This is what I will do. Ok, calmed down a bit now.

She's not dating. My intel confirms this. Maybe I can ask her if she's ok with me dating? See what she says? Just kidding. I like Coach's advice to go out with friends and create some mystery with W. This I can do.

Maybe I'm wrong for not dating. I know you, Gucci and Rob have suggested I consider dating. It just goes against everything I believe to be right for me. On the other hand I do want to save my marriage more than anything. What about the woman that one would date? It seems that they are being used as a ploy to get the W back. What happens to them if it works and W comes backs? How is that fair to them? Just questions I ask myself. To be honest, with where my W seems to be right now I'm not sure it would work anyway.

Thanks Steve for responding so fast. I wanted to ask for the advice before I did my next step with W today. Thanks for clearing my mind. I know what to do now.

[mza8]

You characterize it her ‘rubbing it in’, even though you also acknowledge that she was trying to be helpful. You are in the divorce process and you need to deal with that however unpleasant it may be.

So she offered to talk with her attorney and your attorney yet you feel resentful because it seems like you do everything. At the same time, you think she does things wrong, but you resent her for not doing more. So basically, you want her to do more, but do it your way.

I dunno . . . . sound controlling to you?

Stupid way of thinking by me isn't it? This is my biggest problem...too controlling. I don't even realise it sometimes. I'm glad that at least all of you are calling me on it. It helps me recognize my controlling behavior. It will help me to stop this behavior. I've been so used to having to be the boss/controlling for years with a lot of things outside my marriage that I wound up bringing that controlling behavior into my marriage. I really dislike my behavior sometimes. I'm trying to do better in these areas.

Thanks Dudess.

[mza8]

Well, I continue to, as Coach would say, “handle things”. Taking care of some very difficult things with the bank this week with house but I think all my hard work paid off and I got things worked out. Once again I am the only one taking care of things as W says she will do things but hasn’t. When she offers and I say ok she then says well, if you want to call them that’s ok too. Same old situation, same as last two years.

Anyway, I feel I’m really stepping up as a man this week and taking care of things. W has said she appreciates me handling this and the work that I’ve done. I’m not doing it to impress her, instead because it needs to be done and is the right thing to do. The issue should be taken care of today and take a lot of stress off of W…and me.

She also emailed me the agreement yesterday for me to list the house. Lots of things in the agreement that do not pertain to me listing the house. Some things in the agreement had more to do with separation and how certain bills would be paid. I read it but didn’t get all worked up which was a 180 for me. I called her later in the day yesterday very cheerful and thanked her for getting the agreement to me and that I would take a look at it and get back to her. I also mentioned this bank issue and updated her. I said that I would call her this morning to discuss the bank issue so we can make a decision as I was waiting for some information first necessary to make a decision about bank. Since that message I think I have the bank issue resolved. I called her this morning and she answered right away which she never does, I was surprised. I asked if this was a bad time and she said she was getting ready to go into a meeting. I gave her a quick one minute update and asked to her call me back to discuss…didn’t keep her on the phone like last time. She said she would call me after her meeting.

She seemed ok on the phone today. She also agreed with me on the decision we should make regarding bank. She had been disagreeing with me about this issue for the past two weeks and today she agreed with me. To me the decision we have to make is a no brainer but I didn’t fight her or try to control her to accept my thinking like I would have in the past. I simply gave her the information, said this is what I think, asked her what she thought and just listened and validated…didn’t necessarily agree but said I hear what she’s saying. I wanted her to make the decision with me (together) rather than it just being me. I encouraged her to ask her attorney for the info too as was advised to me here. I’m happy that has agreed with me now about what we should do with this bank issue. I’m also happy that I didn’t push my agenda (big 180 for me) and gave her space to arrive at this decision on her own.

I’m going to change certain things in the agreement and send it back to her for her to review. If this agreement is really about doing what’s best (selling the house) then she should be ok with my changes. The things I’m taking out are items discussing separation and division of bills. There is absolutely no reason for those items to be included in this agreement and I have been advised to take them out.

Saw W at the gym last night with her GF. W walked by me and looked the other way. She’s being so immature. You would think with everything I’m doing to help us with the house that she could at least acknowledge me and look my way. Whatever, it doesn’t bother me, just making an observation. I can at least be civil with her in public. Was talking to a friend of mine at the gym last night. He said he saw her on Wednesday night and said hello. Said W said she saw me there on Wednesday too. I was at the other end of the gym where the field is playing my soccer game. Kind of surprised she even told my friend she saw me, he never mentioned me in the conversation until she said she saw me. I’ve stopped trying to figure her out.

Had my IC appointment yesterday. W never got back to me if she wanted to go. She told me last week she would. Said how she told me before that she would go for her reasons. When I finally told her last week that was fine and let’s go she agreed. Well, when I left her the message (Robx’s advice) this week I told her about my appt. this week and next and if she wanted to go she was welcome. Again, going for her reasons (closure) was fine. She has completely ignored that part of my message. So I guess she doesn’t want to go after all…even for her reasons.

My counselor said there’s no question the big problem with W and I is communication. He said it’s unfortunate that she is unwilling to communicate right now. I asked him what I should do about next week’s appt., should I mention it to W again? He said to wait a few days and take care of the bank stuff first and then email her about the appt. and just say again that she is welcome to come but the decision is up to her. He said if she doesn’t respond to just drop it at that point as it’s clear she’s not really ready even though she said she would go.

I asked him his thoughts on me dating and if thought it would have any affect. He wasn’t sure about the affect but said that it goes against what I have told W. I have told her that I have wanted to work on M and that if I dated it would go against that...sending her mixed signals. He suggested that I not date especially if I am fairly certain that my W is not dating.

So that’s the update for today. I’m not letting my thoughts be consumed by her anymore. Just taking care of the bank and house agreement and that’s it for now.

[mza8]

Happy to report the bank issue has been resolved. W and I agreed today and took care of it. W did her part this afternoon and I am pleased.

W and I spoke briefly again this afternoon by phone. She told me she took care of her part with the bank. I thanked her for helping. I was brief and went to end the call. She asked me about the agreement with the house and if I had a chance to review it. I said I will look at it closely and get back to her no later than Sunday. Told her that I will be away tomorrow and will look at it when I get back tomorrow night. Didn't tell her my plans. I said that I will make sure the house is back on the market by the beginning of next week. I then said talk to you later and that was the end of the call.

I won't stall with this. I will make my changes to the agreement and email it back to her this weekend. I'd like to get the house back on the market on Monday. As soon as I get some information I'm waiting on I will send her back the agreement. I'd like to do it tomorrow instead of waiting until Sunday if possible. I'm trying to make that happen. She did her part today and I want to do mine with getting this agreement done for her.

I think things turned out ok today. A pretty good day. Nice that W and I were able to work together to resolve this issue. I'll take care of the agreement and then we should be set for awhile.

[mza8]

Update. Breaking it up into two posts.

Few new developments over the past few days. Bank issue was resolved last Friday. Next item on the list to take care of was signing listing agreement for house and getting it back on the market. I made my revisions to the agreement and emailed it back to W Sunday night. I explained the changes I made to the agreement and why. Explained that I kept in everything relating to listing the house, my commission, and what I promised to do, etc. Told her that I took out unrelated items such as the parts about marriage stuff, splitting of bills, etc. as this is what I was advised to do.

W called me Monday morning and we talked about the agreement. Conversation began politely. She asked why I made some of the changes and I explained again that it was what I was advised to do. Well, that opened the gates of hell. She became furious. She said that if I had a lawyer I should just tell her. Said, that’s fine/good then we can all meet together with our lawyers and work this out. She didn’t want to spend a lot of money or lawyers and said she didn’t think I did either.

Then I think the real reason she was upset came out. She tells me that two weeks ago when I was talking to her about things (my apologies, etc.) she was starting to think that maybe I had changed and was thinking about things. She then said that it’s clear that I haven’t changed and it’s the same old me trying to work my angles with everything. Let me be clear, when she talked about her thinking I was changing and now she thinks I’m not, she was extremely upset. Very loud voice and talking very fast. I just shut my mouth and listened. Honestly, she was talking so fast I don’t think I could have gotten a word in anyway.

This was the first time in a long time that I can remember her being this upset. She was so upset when she was talking about how she was beginning to think I was changing but now thinks that I’m not. She went on and on about that for awhile. Again, I just listened and said I understand that she feels this way and I’m sorry she feels this way. No doubt in my mind anymore that she is in fact watching what I do and how I handle things. This is a critical time where I must be consistent in everything I do with her. I think I might finally be starting to see her opening up a bit.

We talked for about an hour. She asked again why I made some of the changes to the agreement and I again explained that it was what I was advised to do. She said that I should stop beating around the bush and if I had a lawyer that I should let her know. I told her that I had spoken to several lawyers and left it at that. Things got quiet. I then told her that I want to do the right thing. We talked some more about the agreement and negotiated it to both of our liking.

[mza8]

I told her that she was right in her thinking two weeks ago that I had changed. I told her that she only sees the part of me with her and I dealing with these difficult issues. She doesn’t see me every day and the person I have become. I told her that everything I had been saying to her for the past two weeks is true, the real me. By this time she had calmed down. She listened and we talked for a bit longer. She had to go to a meeting at work so we ended the call on good terms and I said I would get the revised agreement to her and we would figure out a time to sign it.

Later that day she emailed our previous agent and told her to remove her sign from the property. She never mentioned anything to the agent that I was going to list the house now or anything. She gave this agent no explanation. I couldn’t believe it. Something interesting though, she did sign that email with her married last name. Weird because she had only been signing her emails with her first name only. First time in over 9 months that I have seen her sign anything with her married last name. Why sign it with anything but her first name? Not going to try to figure that one out. Maybe it means something, maybe it doesn’t. I felt bad for the agent though but I would get a chance to speak with her later by phone and I explained the situation that I was going to list the house.

From our meeting last night it’s crystal clear to me that she is stressed about the house. I really believe that right now she’s unable to focus/try anything with M until the house is sold. She got herself worked up a few times when I was explaining the paperwork for the listing to her. There was information that we had to fill out and she started to stress herself out and said she didn’t know the information needed. I was very calm and told her not to worry that I would take care of it. I asked her what else I can do to help her. She also made a comment about the past agent. She was upset with the agent that she didn’t communicate with her at the end. This was strange because my W never communicated with the agent during the three months the house was listed. I think it goes to show the state my W’s mind is in right now.


W and I emailed several more times between Monday and yesterday. She signed everyone of her emails to me with her shorter first name rather than her full first name…her first name I always called her by. She signed her emails to me with a thanks or thank you. We met last night at the house to sign the agreement and the paperwork to list the house. I had to get our neighbor to witness the agreement. All three of us talked for awhile. I was charming and funny. I could see my W watching me the whole time. I saw her smile at me a lot. Our neighbor left and my W and I finished the paperwork. Every time I looked at her she would smile at me. If I grinned she would smile, if she smiled I would smile. A few times we looked at each other and smiled and then chuckled a bit for no real reason. She asked me several times what the look was on my face. I finally said, what look? She said it wasn’t a bad look or anything. I just said I didn’t realize I was making a look. She just smiled again. It was very relaxed. We looked into each other’s eyes several times and it would cause us both to smile at each other. I was dressed very nice, sport coat, etc. and wore cologne. She had on her workout clothes, no make-up. She was going to the gym after. Her hair is still thin and she had some acne on her face again. She gets this way when she is stressed.

We finished the paperwork and I told her to have a good night. She wished me the same. Then both of us just kind of stood there for a minute and neither one of us did anything to leave. I said ok I’ll take care of the house listing and contact her later. She said ok and we both wished each other a good night again. She still didn’t leave and stood there looking down with her arms crossed to her chest holding her paperwork. Then stupid me reminds her of my counseling appt. for today and said she is welcome to come but I understand and respect her decision if she doesn’t. I just wanted to extend the invitation. She thanked me for the invitation and said she couldn’t today because of work. She thought about it for a minute and then said she would have to think about it for awhile about going…I’m guessing she meant about going in the future or when/if she was ready. She looked down, nodded her head up and down and repeated herself that she would need to think about it. She paused for a minute and then said that she thinks we want to go for different reasons. Ugh, she still brings this up. I think she does it as a security blanket for herself. I know that when we talked on Monday and she was very upset, she mentioned that this October she could file. I am now convinced that she only brings up October when she feels that I push her. Anyway, I didn’t take the bait about her saying she thinks we want to go to counseling for different reasons. I told her that we could go for any reason and just talk. No pressure. I didn’t push the subject, just dropped it and with a smile on my face I said to have a good night again and she looked me in the eye and told me the same and left.

Overall I think the past few days have been somewhat positive. I thought our meeting last night went well even though she still had to mention about our reasons for going to counseling maybe being different. That’s fine, she’s not ready. I only reminded her about the appointment because my counselor thought I should. I didn’t go into the meeting with any expectations and I wasn’t sad or depressed after. I thought it went pretty well.

[pinhead]

MZ,

Keep working on yourself. Your W is so fixated on the home sale, it's clouding her judgement. When that's done, maybe things will clear up for her.

My wife is the same way. All she can think about is getting her appt. Everything else is just an obstacle.

If I was a real jerk, I'd bring up bankruptcy again, just to freak her out. But I have to remind myself to do the Right Thing. Not just for her, but for my daughters.