From my own experience and from what I've read on the boards this is very common in MLCers. Stress and depression has a tendency to age a person pretty quickly.
Have you noticed your W's eyes? Many report a dull and lifeless look in them. I've seen this in my H's as well.
I wanted to respond to the question you have about trying to love someone when they [b]appear[/quote] not to love you back. Dude – my W was the epitome of cold and distant for a long time. IMO they do this because they do now want to give YOU a false sense of hope. In their minds they are done. So how can you love someone that acts and feels this way towards you? You accept the fact that right now she is sick and in some serious pain, that may not be evident to YOU. Right now and maybe for a very long time she is running from her own demons. Right now her actions REFLECT her PAIN. Right now she is not the same person. So….
Remember what you two had. You remember the good times. You remember the laughter. You remember the person that she was. You accept that her choices are hers. That SHE must do this for herself. She MUST do this to find what she is looking for. You accept that it is what it is and then you let completely go. You really detach. You deal with YOUR pain and YOUR hurt.
Once you do this…
Once you gain this understanding you will feel a wave of compassion that falls over you. All of sudden you realize where she is, what she is probably going thru and you hurt. You also begin to truly love her. You love her so much that you have let her go.
It happens Mental…It just happens…IMO…it only happens when you let go.
God Bless, Eric
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
"Have you noticed your W's eyes? Many report a dull and lifeless look in them. I've seen this in my H's as well."
Yes I have. There's been quite a few times in the past year that I've noticed my wife's eye's and they have this 'staring off into space' look. It kinda creeps me out. Before she moved out there were also a handful of times when she was extremely stressed out, crazy, guilt-ridden, whatever [from being secretive, hiding her EA] and her pupils became very dilated. Is that something you've experienced? In the last couple of months or so my wife does seem somewhat more grounded, and her eyes definitely appear more consistenly 'engaged', even when she cycles through mood swings, etc...
I just thought of something. Why is it that there seems to be sooooo many common denominator "dont's" when it comes to dealing with an MLC spouse - for example, don't have relationship talk, don't do this, don't do that? However, aside from detachment, there seems to be very few (if any) "DO's" in terms of potential positive actions one can take to help their MLC spouse through their crisis and thus successfully their relationship. Why is that?
I see that alot of advice you all give me definitely hits the proverbial nail-on-the-head when it comes to recognizing/dealing with certain aspects of tmy wife's crisis. On the other hand, alot of the "Dont's" simply don't apply as well...because of my wife's individual character and the Chinese culture in which she was born and raised. That makes it tough for me to come here seeking advice sometimes, just knowing my wife's character, and feeling, "Well, that will never work." Or, something along those lines.
Oh well. Just getting my thought out again. Thanks for any feedback you all can provide.
The first thing you have to realize is that you can not fix this for your W. She has to face her internal issues and deal with them on their own. You did not break her, and you can't fix her.
What you can work on is yourself. Figure out what your part in the marriage was that got you to this point.
As far as R talks go do not initiate them. If your W does, validate what she has to say. This does not mean that you have to agree with her, it means that you agree that she has a right to how she feels. The reason you do not bring them up is that it produces guilt and pressure in the MLCer and that pushes them further away. You want to be the safe place.
Do not defend yourself during spew sessions. It just inflames and escalates the rant from the MLCer further. If you find that something stings in the spew, those are things you might want to look at and work on in yourself.
Working on you is for you. It's not a trick to bring your MLCer back. They can see right through a change that isn't permanent. Do not tell them that you've changed. The best you can do is live that change consistently, they will notice.
Radio, this journey that your wife is on will not end quickly. It takes a long time to travel through the tunnel. You can not make it go quicker, but by pressuring her, or trying to fix her can make it take longer.
At some point you may look at this as a gift. It's time you get to work on yourself, find you again, be the best you possible.
A lot of the advice you are given is counter intuitive to what you think would work. It has been proven time and time again that what we think we should do drives our MLCer further away, faster. They are looking for anything to justify why they're doing what they're doing. Making them feel guilty and pressuring them feeds that justification in their minds.
Patience is something you will have to have in spades. It's the one thing the LBS has to learn to have to see themselves through the journey of their spouse and themselves.
Keep reading and learning. The more you understand what it is that your W is going through, the easier it is to detach and keep yourself from being caught up in her drama.
there seems to be very few (if any) "DO's" in terms of potential positive actions one can take to help their MLC spouse through their crisis and thus successfully their relationship. Why is that?
There is paradox that exists with this and if you take this path you will know it to be true.
It is this
By your own choice not to really do anything,
not to control, pressure, interfere, not file for D, not to engage in another R, not force Not even to say I love you (there is pressure even in this)
You actually are giving them the best thing for them right now.
Your vows( if they are important to you) said you would love and honor.
You are honoring her with respecting what she is telling you she wants. You may know or think that is not what is best for her.
BUT
They her choices. Honor them.
Also
You must do this so you can work on yourself.
You can't do that when you are caught up in the maelstrom of W's turmoil.
As you experience this you will understand...
IMO one of the greatest "gifts" we get from this is the understanding of how to express this kind of love for our spouse.
The letting go kind that says to them I will love you no matter your choices or your burdens.
She feels guilty Radio whether she expresses that or not, whether she acts that or not. The more you tell her you love her the more guilt she feels.
Show her by your actions (or rather inaction) that you love her.
Your actions, your DO's should be for you and you only.
BUT
You can think that your sitch is "special". I assure you that you will find it is not.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
Hey Mental...read G-man's post several times and then read it again.
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Okay, so my wife's been cycling through a low period of depression for the last 2-3 days. She's been criticizing, snapping, etc... and I've been pretty successful at detaching and/or not reacting at all to her tirades. This evening was rough. Long story short, we ended up having a relatively long phone conversation and, at one point, my wife uttered those dreaded words that she has only mentioned twice since this whole EA/crisis started a year ago - divorce. A few things are twirling in my mind about this conversation.
First is the simple fact that she's literally only uttered the word "divorce" twice in the last year. Both times, she has been somewhat hesitant in the way she's said it to me as well. Tonight, on the phone, she was very agitated about many things. I was really confused as to why she was going through the whole 'revisionist marriage history' with me AGAIN, since this was literally the first 'relationship' type conversation we have had since she moved out of our home 5 months ago. I can't quite pinpoint yet what triggered her to get stuck on repeat tonight with all the 'bad' memories again. Anyhow, she kept making comments about all my perceived mistakes over the course of our marriage and repeated a few times on how she "wants to get away from YOU". I asked her to try and not use the past to judge a potentially good future for us, and also to not let her past fears control how she viewed who I am today, and then asked her what she wanted. Her response was, "I uhhh...think I want a divorce." As I alluded to above, I guess the question here is, what could possible have triggered my wife to cycle through those bad memories, in the context of this being the first relationship talk between us in 5 months? Is this something 'normal' that happens as part of MLC? Is DJ filling her mind with crap still? What could I have possibly done to trigger her tirade? The second is, what do you all make of the hesitancy of her divorce statement, in the context of her only mentioning it twice in one year, in the context of her still wearing her wedding ring every day? (Well, maybe not after tonight...Who knows...)
Second, at one point about 7-8 months ago, when my wife still lived at home, I was snooping and saw some e-mail exchanges between her and DJ (her EA partner), one in particular where she mentioned that she had been unhappy [in our marriage?] since our daughter was born in late 2007. Could this suggest that her MLC has been going on since 2007, and the EA with DJ (which started July, 2009) was just a trigger for a different stage in the crisis (I think some call it "Replay" if I'm not mistaken.) Is it possible her MLC has been going on for 3 years or more already? What does all this suggest about the length, where's she's at, and when she might reach the end of the MLC and the crisis end?
Third, at certain points in our phone conversation, I remember very clearly hearing her voice tone shift from an adult like voice to that of a younger child - i.e., the tone, voice inflection, just the "way" she talked in general sounded very child like at times. Am I hearing things? Or, if I was accurate in what I was hearing, could this be an indication of something specific to MLC? I remember reading a post by someone calling themselves Hearts Blessing saying how MLC has something to do with a 'crisis child', and having to merge past, child personalities that got stuck in time, with current adult personalities. So, tell me again, was I hearing things? Or, in the context of her obvious depression cycling over last few days, could her 'crisis child' have come out to play the last few days, and that's who spoke to me tonight? Could it be her 'crisis child' asking for a divorce, and not my "real" wife?
All thoughts are welcome. Thank you for your feeback.
Second, at one point about 7-8 months ago, when my wife still lived at home, I was snooping and saw some e-mail exchanges between her and DJ (her EA partner), one in particular where she mentioned that she had been unhappy [in our marriage?] since our daughter was born in late 2007. Could this suggest that her MLC has been going on since 2007, and the EA with DJ (which started July, 2009) was just a trigger for a different stage in the crisis (I think some call it "Replay" if I'm not mistaken.) Is it possible her MLC has been going on for 3 years or more already? What does all this suggest about the length, where's she's at, and she might reach the end of the MLC and the crisis end?
Dude, turn off trying to fix her.
MLC? Ha! She had an affair. She wasn't happy in the marriage and was immature enough to think the answer was an affair.
Period. This can happen at almost any age, and it does happen at any age after about 15.
So she tells you all this crap about how you suck, and you argue with her about the accuracy and try to get her to change her feelings? How often does that ever work?
The detatched response to somebody saying "You suck and make me miserable" is something like, "That's not nice, bye".
Last edited by TimeHeals; 07/30/1002:53 AM.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
From my own experience and from what I've read on the boards this is very common in MLCers. Stress and depression has a tendency to age a person pretty quickly.
Have you noticed your W's eyes? Many report a dull and lifeless look in them. I've seen this in my H's as well.
It can be dull and lifeless, or "black" with dark colored eyes. They will look like a predator.
Look at old pictures when they liked you, you can see the love in the eyes.
