A new day ... or something equally cliche ....

[ericmsant2]

PEI

Sorry but I will need to make this short. I'm taking the kiddies to a drive in movie theater.

Eric honey, are you talking to me or to yourself? Are you worried about me and my choices or are you worried about yours?

Nah...I'm not worried about mine. I haven't made any other than to live my life. Was I talking to myself? Maybe...I think I was talking to everyone.

I try and follow one rule of thumb...if ya gonna do it...do it with no regrets.

Good luck sweetie...good luck. Hopefully you can stay on these boards and help others.

In closing...as Jack said...take it slow.

Eric

[punkin]

Pei,

I really respect and for the most part agree with everything that you said. Do I believe that my WH is hurting worse than I am. No. He's too wrapped up and self centered to hurt. Hurt involves caring for other people, and I don't think at this moment he cares for anyone but himself.

I waffle from time to time, wondering if I'm doing the right thing or putting off the inevitable. I look back at my marriage of 20 years and know now, as our children have told me, that I bent over backwards for him. Going slow is not my nature. I'm an action figure. Not jumping off cliffs or anything but definitely jumping in and getting done what needs to be done asap.

I guess I'm rambling, but I really took to heart many of the points that you made, about standing, about unconditional love, about hurt. Great job!

[lolawar]

And I truly will, but love, "in love" and marriage are not always synonomous.

Do you think this needs to be synonomous all of the time? Are there some marriages that have this every day for 20, 40, 60 years?

Not challenging you...just wondering...

[PEI]

And I truly will, but love, "in love" and marriage are not always synonomous.

Do you think this needs to be synonomous all of the time? Are there some marriages that have this every day for 20, 40, 60 years?

Not challenging you...just wondering...

Hey lola, that's exactly my point. They have different meanings and are sometimes synonomous, sometimes not. To answer your question, IMO, No. I honestly can't imagine a marriage lasting any amount of time where the two partners "felt" in love the whole time, day in and day out. Also, I think you can love someone and let them go ... let them leave the marriage. I was saying that I vowed to love my husband, and I always will, even if we don't stay married.

[PEI]

I guess I'm rambling, but I really took to heart many of the points that you made, about standing, about unconditional love, about hurt. Great job!

Thanks punkin, really my intention here is to also make people think, make myself think ... challenge myself to go deeper and examine what it is I really say, think, believe and feel. I hope you keep doing the same

[PEI]

Just for the record, you kick me, PEI, and I'm crapping on your living room rug.

Puppy

Noted. And fair.

PEI

[PEI]

I hope that you will stick around here.

Good luck sweetie...good luck. Hopefully you can stay on these boards and help others.

Ummm .... am I going somewhere? Y’all don’t think I’m that easy to get rid of do you? Seriously? C’mon ... really?

I think that you have begun to do the work,
but IMHO none of us will ever be done doing the work.
That is a lifetime event.

I have also said it many, many times ....

IMO we are never DONE of the work

and I really believe that.

I know I have not COMPLETED the work, that is an impossible task, one that only really gets accomplished when we’re 6 feet under. It does stand to reason then though, that at some point, even though the work is “incomplete” we are ready to move forward, make decisions and live our lives.

Listen, I get it. I really do. I can only imagine how many times some of you vets have seen a newbie on here spouting “I’m done”, “I’ve done the work”, “our marriage was never good and I can only see it now” ... only to have them come back devastated because they made hasty decisions to move their D along or to find a new R. They thought they had done the work. They thought they were done. I get it. I also understand that the challenges come from a place of genuine concern and caring. You wouldn’t bother if you truly didn’t want to see me well and whole.

I also appreciate the honesty, the candor and down right bluntness (is that a word?).

I think that you and only you know everything that is going on in your life. We merely see a small glimpse of it.

I wonder as many others have and are, why or what happened in the last month

Quite simply, my dealbreaker - and like Cat, I don’t think I had articulated what it was prior to it happening. But then it did. Oh, and clarity. Ya know, maybe I need to get a little more real and truly throw it out there. Maybe I’ll post my story. It might give some more perspective.

MLC most of them are. Not all, not all the time, not everyone is the same.

Tell me he is not in any pain.

Lance, I know H is in pain, I know there is very good likelyhood that he is, and has been for a very long time, suffering with depression - unfortunately he and his IC disagree with me. My father and 13 yo brother are both diagnosed with clinical depression. I experienced post-partum depression, and also had a bout with it last year as I dealt with the aftermath of my families traumatic year. I thank you for the book title, and I will add it to my list of reading for my holidays (if you call 6 weeks of chasing 3 kids age 6 and under ... holidays!). I was not intending to imply that a person suffering in MLC does not have pain, I was simply pointing out that not all WAS are MLC, IMO ... and ... even though the MLCer is in pain, I don’t think it would be fair to generalize and assume that they are always in more pain than they are causing to their loved ones. That’s all.

Did you read any books?
Is it written in the MLC resources?
Have you read all of those?

Off the top of my head (I'm not in the house tonight so I can't check my drawer to see if I'm missing any):
Relationship Rescue - McGraw
Getting the Love You Want - Hendrix(even corresponded with an Imago relationship therapist)
Divorce Busting - MWD
Divorce Remedy - MWD
This is not the story you think it is - Munson
How to Improve your marriage without talking about it - Love & Stosny
Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus - Gray
Taking Space - Buchiccio
Love & Respect (excerps) - Eggerichs

From the livestrong.com website, articles on ...
Detachment
Resentment
Overcoming Infidelity
Anger
Unconditional Love
Controlling Behaviour
Insecurity
Codependancy
Depression
... to name just a few

From the resources ...
6 stages of MLC
Debate: MLC vs WAS
MLC for Dummies
Post from an MLCer
My thoughts on why they run away
Rip Van Winkles awakening
... again, to name a few ... I know I’ve read more just don’t have time to back through and check each one right now ...

Other...
A huge variety of threads, both old and new, including “successful women” from the archives
Various articles as recommended by my IC along the way
Various articles as recommended by my DB coach
The Secret

On deck:
Codependant No More
... and now, the recommended reading on depression from Lance (sorry, not scrolling back to copy it now)

Anyway ... it is late ... I am tired ...
I’ll have a look-see again tomorrow ... for tonight, that’s all she wrote! (Just leave it alone Puppy!)

Peace
PEI

[cat04]

You have said that you have done the work.
What proves this?
Did you read any books?
Is it written in the MLC resources?
Have you read all of those?

I don't really care whether you choose to stand or not.
That is your choice.
I would not impose what I think on you, thats silly.

OP,

You say that you don't want to impose what you think on PEI, but it seems to me that is exactly what you are doing.

Who are you to ask her to prove herself, really who are any of us to do that?

While many have challenged her, you seem to be the only one who has asked her to site her sources...

Those sources do not make her an expert...
They do not mean she has done the work...

She, or any of us, could read a million books, could even get a degree in MLC, but unless we have looked inside, and searched our own soul, we may KNOW the MLC rehetoric, but that DOES NOT mean we have done the work...

Good luck OP, I hope your knowledge takes you far.

[LanceSijan]

Cat

I agree with you, that she must look inside. She also must know what it is that she is looking for. I am challenging her and asking her what she read for a particular reason.

Look at the books she has read, they are admirable. How many are on mlc? How many are on male menopause? I do not profess to be an expert by any means, certainly I do not have the experience that you have. I have begun to look inside and I also admit that I did not know what I was looking for.
I am not trying to impose my will on anyone, and I don't see how you get that by what I wrote. Because if that is what you are getting maybe you are trying to impose your will on me.

Cat I have a question for you?
Have you read the book "Silent Sons?"
This is one of the latest ones that I have read.
I figured out from this book that I am a silent son.
Maybe you husband is also.

I am sorry Cat that you think I am attacking you or anyone else.
I am not.
If that is the impression I have given you I am truly sorry.

[PEI]

Who are you to ask her to prove herself, really who are any of us to do that?

You're right Cat. No one on here has a right to ask anyone to prove anything. But I've welcomed challenges and been open to it, so I see why he did. FTR though, I did not post my reading list in order to prove myself to Lance. I knew that he would immediately pick up on the fact that there are not a lot of MLC and depression resources on the list. I knew that, and posted it anyway. I've been witness to, and dealing with, male depression for my entire life. I've personally experienced depression, both clinical and post-partum, too. And yes, I've done some research and reading on the subject. The books I listed above are from the last 5 mos. It's not an exhaustive list of everything I've ever read.

Those sources do not make her an expert...
They do not mean she has done the work...

Exactly right. It's precisely why I set down the relationship books, books in general for a little while and really focused on me, on my IC and what I was processing. This is my journey so I returned my focus to me.

I agree with you, that she must look inside. She also must know what it is that she is looking for.

I went looking for ME. It's what we should all be looking for inside ourselves. Our true selves. Our truth. Not someone elses version of our truth or our selves. How many roles do we play, how many masks do we wear ... those are things I set aside when I went inside. And it's not easy, some of these masks/walls/roles have been in place for basically my entire life. Others for my whole adult life.


Lance, I'm not sure what it is, but there is something about me that just doesn't sit right with you. I don't know you well enough to know, so I'm not sure if you're really and truly just concerned that I'm "done" too early ... if you think I just really don't understand MLC and am not being "fair" to my sick H ... if you just don't like the way I post ... if you think I'm a know it all ... I really have no idea, and frankly, it doesn't matter to me. I'm long past worrying about what other people think of me, and why (unless it stings - right Jack, told ya I was paying attention). I can tell you this, I appreciate your sharing of knowledge and your dedication to marriage and to these boards. I appreciate being challenged and pushed to reach my full potential by everyone on here.

Please don't lose sight of this ...

any of us, could read a million books, could even get a degree in MLC, but unless we have looked inside, and searched our own soul, we may KNOW the MLC rehetoric, but that DOES NOT mean we have done the work...

... this knowledge, this work, is not found in a book. It's much harder than that.

Peace
PEI