A new day ... or something equally cliche ....

[ericmsant2]

PEI,

Quite frankly, I think most are suspect of my ability to be genuinely making decisions from a place of healing, growth, maturity and love based on my timeline.

As Jack mentions, I think that this ^^^^ is the concern that everyone probably has with YOU and a few others on these boards.

I made mention of something similar in my thread several weeks ago. It was along the lines of… I see many of you saying "I am now standing for me", etc. and I too wonder if WE ALL (myself included) have done the work to be whole and complete. If we really are at a point that we are healed enough to make this claim. I am not being critical. I am not. I am not judging you or your position. Only YOU know what is best for you. Only YOU know what is best for your kids. FTR – this post is not just for YOU PEI.

For me personally, I think it boils down to everyone’s "own" interpretation of "standing".

What is it? What does it mean?

I do not want to speak for YOU or anyone else so I here are MY views, specifically as it relates to my sitch (sorry if this is a hijack).

I love my W. I think everyone knows this. I am now trying to figure out what I really want. What I want for me and my kids. Not for her. I now understand that her choices are hers. Her actions or the lack thereof are HERS not mine. MY actions are MINE. The decisions that I make are mine. I own them. No one else.

So the questions for me really are....do I love her enough to wait this out? Can I really act "as if" she will never again be in my life? Are any of my decisions based in anger? Are any of my decisions based in fear? Are they the "easy" way out? Was the M really that good? Who will she be when and IF she comes out of this?

Back to my interpretation of standing….

Am I standing? I have no idea. I know this. I don’t have a crystal ball. I love my W. I still do and always will. I will not move forward with a D (FTR she filed already and I have an Aug court date). I will protect my interest BUT will not be an ass. I will be fair, honest and just. I will be who I NOW AM. I am also moving forward in my life. Whatever happens in it happens. I am going with the flow that is LIFE.

So is this standing? I have no idea nor do I really care. IMO, we get hung up on the terms, the language and we need to really begin to move away from that and just…..be TRUE to who WE ARE. Personally, I no longer care about who says what. It really does not matter anymore. I know who I am. I know what I am doing.

PEI - We all came here broken, we all came here and screamed "I will wait forever", we came here and we said BOLDLY "I will STAND". Yet, when the going gets tough, when our feelings are hurt, when things do not GO OUR way, well then we start the process of reassessing our M.

Then we begin to "feel" like we are done. We begin to "feel" like our spouses will never change. That maybe they were never the mate for us.

IMO - It is the easy f'in way out. It is a way that some of us can get out of doing the work. The real work of finding out who we REALLY are. The real work of true HEALING. The real work of becoming people of true character and morals. The real work of understanding that EVERYONE is entitled to make their own choices. Including our spouses. The real work of learning what it is to LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY. That is the real work....not the "regurgitating" the DB principals of detach, GAL, etc. that sometime I can see on these boards.

Now I do agree with boundaries. I do agree that sometime enough is enough. I do agree that sometime people may hold on too long. I do agree with all of this.

PEI – your not stupid and I am not questioning your choices. You and everyone else who has made a decision to stand or not stand it is on you. Just make sure of one thing – make sure that you are “sure”. If you still have doubts, then IMO…do nothing…just sit still and let life happen.

Now, I think I remember you posting that the door is not closed for you H – this to me sounds like you and I are in similar sitchs…we are moving forward and living life BUT leaving the door open.

These are just my opinions and FTR what the hell do I know.

God Bless,
Eric

[LanceSijan]

Eric very well said IMHO.

I take this quote from someone else, a lady I know

Why do I stand?

I stand because I know that this person who comes home each night is not the same person I have known for over 20 years.

I stand because I want my children to know that love is unconditional and that sometimes marriage takes work.

I stand because I came from a broken home and know how painful that was.

I stand because God hates divorce and calls me to continuously forgive my H's remarks, attitude, and actions.

I stand because I vowed to love my husband until death.

I stand because I know that my H is in far more pain than I am and will need my support when the walls crash down on him.

I stand because I know that throwing away our family is not really what will bring my h happiness.

[PEI]

Eric,

PEI - We all came here broken, we all came here and screamed "I will wait forever", we came here and we said BOLDLY "I will STAND". Yet, when the going gets tough, when our feelings are hurt, when things do not GO OUR way, well then we start the process of reassessing our M.

Then we begin to "feel" like we are done. We begin to "feel" like our spouses will never change. That maybe they were never the mate for us.

IMO - It is the easy f'in way out. It is a way that some of us can get out of doing the work. The real work of finding out who we REALLY are. The real work of true HEALING. The real work of becoming people of true character and morals. The real work of understanding that EVERYONE is entitled to make their own choices. Including our spouses. The real work of learning what it is to LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY. That is the real work....not the "regurgitating" the DB principals of detach, GAL, etc. that sometime I can see on these boards.

Eric honey, are you talking to me or to yourself? Are you worried about me and my choices or are you worried about yours?

I would wholeheartedly agree that if someone is revising history, rationalizing and justifying because they are hurt and scared and angry, or because the control freak in them can't handle the loss of control ... that IF SOMEONE HAS NOT DONE THE WORK, and bases their actions on feeling like their spouses will never change and feeling that maybe they were never the mate for us, then they are not making choices or decisions from a healthy place of growth, compassion and love ... then yes, I would absolutely agree that they took the f'in easy way out.

However (that's my fancy word for BUT ), if this person is making choices based on unconditional love, truly letting go in love, and then choosing their own path based on being true to themselves and honestly and objectively evaluating what they want and why, IMO that's a whole different ball game. If they have done (and done is not really the right word because IMO we are never DONE of the work) "the real work of finding out who we REALLY are. The real work of true HEALING. The real work of becoming people of true character and morals. The real work of understanding that EVERYONE is entitled to make their own choices. Including our spouses. The real work of learning what it is to LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY" and then objectively and honestly evaluate what their spouse has said (ie look for the sting) and come to some honest and fair conclusions then NO, there is nothing easy about that path, it's not an easy way out. Letting go in love if far harder than letting go in anger or resentment.

I have chosen to live my life and give my husband what he wants because I love him unconditionally, because I want him to be happy even if that means a life without me, because I truly looked at anything that stung. I now understand that he has a right to live his life, make choices and live with the consequences of those choices.

I have not slammed the door shut. Really, as far as I'm concerned my life is full of open doors for the first time in a long time. I don't have a crystal ball, it would be fortune-telling to pretend to know what is going to happen a month, 6 months or 5 years from now. But neither am I waiting to see if he comes back, or hoping for it to happen. I am moving forward, open to living my life and experiencing the opportunities that present themselves.

Now, I think I remember you posting that the door is not closed for you H – this to me sounds like you and I are in similar sitchs…we are moving forward and living life BUT leaving the door open.

I think yes, we are in very similar sitchs. I've said before that it isn't my door to close, and right now that is true, but there is one exception to that statement: when I choose to commit to someone, at that point then yes, I will have shut the door completely.

Cat said it best ...

I do not have anger or unforgivness for my H. It is completely the opposite. I love him still. I always will. I hope that he can get himself together, to a better place for him.

As a final thought, I would also agree that we get caught up in the terms and forget that each individual definition may not be exactly the same. Standing ... Done ... closing the door ... moving forward ... moving on ... all could mean slightly different things to each of us.

Peace
PEI

[PEI]

Hi Lance ... I am going to add my editorial to the quote you posted. Since the quote is ONE person's experience and opinion, one person's truth, I thought I would add my thoughts (and since it's my thread ... why not eh!)

Why do I stand?

I stand because I know that this person who comes home each night is not the same person I have known for over 20 years.

In my case I've honestly discovered that I did not know my H as well as I thought I did for the last 15 yrs (and I'm not looking to get into a debate about revisionist history here, it's all in my other thread) and also ... mine doesn't come home every night. We're not sharing time anymore at all.

I stand because I want my children to know that love is unconditional and that sometimes marriage takes work.

Just FTR, you can love someone unconditionally and not be married to them, IMO, sometimes to love them unconditionally you just might have to let them go. Oh, and also - marriage is ALWAYS work.

I stand because I came from a broken home and know how painful that was.

Not my case, my sitch was more of a "together" home with so much fighting and anger that my sister and I wished for divorce. I agree that happily married parents is the ideal situation for kids, but miserably married parents is not the next best thing in my books. I've lived it.

I stand because God hates divorce and calls me to continuously forgive my H's remarks, attitude, and actions.

This one is dependant on each persons beliefs. Now, I'm hardly versed in the bible, but it's my understanding that even God approves in cases of marital infidelity ... anyone? Oh, and forgiveness and Standing are not the same thing. You can forgive and choose not to Stand.

I stand because I vowed to love my husband until death.

And I truly will, but love, "in love" and marriage are not always synonomous.

I stand because I know that my H is in far more pain than I am and will need my support when the walls crash down on him.

Know he is in far more pain? Even in MLC, and not all wayward spouses are IMO, I'm not sure I always believe this. Let's just say we'll agree to disagree on this, as I know this could turn into quite a debate. Support yes, but even when the walls come crashing down it is a journey he must finish for himself.

I stand because I know that throwing away our family is not really what will bring my h happiness.

That is hopeful mind-reading. It's logical and makes sense to the LBS, but it's still mind-reading.

I'm not trying to be argumentative (... ok, maybe a little ...) but really Lance, I'm just trying to point out that everyone's definition, timeframes and situations are different.

Some will Stand, without doing the work, forever.

Some will give up out of anger, resentment and hurt.

Some will Stand, do the work, and continue to Stand because it is the right thing for THEM to do.

Some will Stand, do the work, and then realize they no longer Stand for their marriage because it is also the right thing to do for THEM.

Standing ... Not Standing ... again ... we're getting caught up in the words ...

Do the work. Or as Eric would probably say "Do the F'in work. REALLY do it".

Then make any decisions and choices you are ready to make from a place of clarity, love, truth, and just for you Grit ... grace.

That's really the only way.

IMHO.

Peace
PEI

[dl443322]

Pei, I like you. I like that you write with such openness and honesty. I like that you are willing to listen to others' opinions, that you take them into consideration and then answer with such frankness.

I feel that you have come to your decision after deep thought and much soul searching. I think that you and only you know everything that is going on in your life. We merely see a small glimpse of it.

The people on this board are unlike any I have ever known. They care deeply and want so much for everyone to walk this journey and become who they were meant to be. They want to be sure that no stone was left unturned, no issue overlooked.

But, I think that we should respect each other and accept the decisions that are made.

And since we traveled part of this journey with you, we should wish you peace and happiness. Ultimately, we should want each and everyone of us to find peace in our heart. And I think you have. To me, that is success.

So, Pei, I wish you open doors and calm waters. I wish you a quiet spirit and an open heart.

I hope that you will stick around here. You make people think. That's always a good thing.

[LanceSijan]

Since you are willing to do the work, I am going to reccomend a book that I just finished reading from the resources:

The Pain Behind The Mask: Overcoming Masculine Depression by John Lynch, Christopher T. Kilmarting.

Read this book and then come back and tell me your WH has no traits from the book. Tell me he is not in any pain.

Where are you getting the information about your WH from?
Who is telling you that he is happy?
I hope you are not getting this from him.

Know he is in far more pain? Even in MLC, and not all wayward spouses are IMO, I'm not sure I always believe this. Let's just say we'll agree to disagree on this, as I know this could turn into quite a debate.

You are absolutely correct that you could turn that into a great debate. I can not agree with you and this is where I find fault with your thinking.
You have said that you have done the work.
What proves this?
Did you read any books?
Is it written in the MLC resources?
Have you read all of those?

I don't really care whether you choose to stand or not.
That is your choice.
I would not impose what I think on you, thats silly.

I think that you have begun to do the work,
but IMHO none of us will ever be done doing the work.
That is a lifetime event.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Everyone is different, though we share some commonalities.

And even though we share some commonalities we are all unique butterflies...or snowflakes...

Look PEI,

Simply, you right, I look at your time here, a few months and I see you re-evaluating your last 15 years of marriage...not really within the last 3 months but the last month, and I wonder as many others have and are, why or what happened in the last month to make you...

See your marriage in a different light, usually...it is a justification. Aseops Fable of sour grapes. The fox unable to reach the grapes proclaims them sour.

I really do not know you, I will agree that everyone is different, everyone has a different time line and some can do this forever, and do so for the wrong reasons.

Just as not everyone in here has a spouse who is in MLC, MLC is the last stop to cling to hope in some cases...and fukc anyone who takes that hope away from someone who wants to hope. How dare you? Seriosuly, go kick a puppy on your way to work instead. No not Puppy.



I do not want you to make a choice down the road that you will regret. There is a ton of regret here, hell not just in MLC but all over about bad decisions and poor thinking and hurt. A sharp choice in the hands of a vulnerable person hurts just as much as a sharp choice in a mean person hands...intentions aside tears still flow.


Time is on your side.

Go slow.

I do like that you are not closing doors. I do worry about the 15 years and...you are not the only LBS to think they removed rose colored glasses when looking at their old marriage and proclaiming it suckville or...lacking.

Are they in pain?

MLC most of them are. Not all, not all the time, not everyone is the same.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Just for the record, you kick me, PEI, and I'm crapping on your living room rug.

Puppy

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I wasn't directing that comment toward anyone specific, but anyone who does so generally. I do not see anyone doing that.

: )

[dl443322]

Aww Jack, you make me smile. You come across as tough and then you talk about butterflies and snowflakes. I see right through you, my friend. LOL!

I agree with you, Jack. I usually do.

I guess I am feeling that it has all been said to you, Pei, again and again and again. And at some point, we really must respect a person's right to make a decision that she thinks is right for her.

Having said that, I also hope that you realize that your journey of self discovery should never end and that your feelings might change when the hurt and the pain subside a bit.

The way I feel now is very different than the way I felt three months into it, and different still further down the road.

So, I hope that you revisit these feelings again. I hope that in the quiet, you see it all clearly.

And I hope that you really mean that you are not closing any doors.

Keep searching, keep looking inward, keep going.