Not sure where to start, or end. WAW?

[PMA_Baby!]

Sorry John, but I have to agree w pup. YOU cant be the only one that wants it. It just doesn't work.

Remember kicking her to the curb might force her to get help and come back to you in the long run. You could also be saving your son from a life of hurt and confusion.

PMA

[john28]

Well, things seemed to actually stabilize last night.

She finally came clean about all of it. ALL of it. She said she finally felt like she wasn't being confronted and attacked and could open up about what happened. She told me everything, and allowed me to ask any questions I wanted. She was being 100% honest. She agreed not to delete her browser history anymore or delete anything from her phone. She admitted that the OM still contacts her but she has not responded to his texts or calls - basically dropped it cold turkey. She said that if it happens again she will let me know. As far as meeting up two weeks ago with a friend, she admitted that she lied to me and the reasoning behind it was that I was on edge as of late and she thought it would blow up into a big deal, which it wasn't. Nothing there - just friends, and I believe it.

I now again feel safe in my home... but this time 100%. Not 99%. Before last night I had that 1% of doubt always nagging at me, making me paranoid, making me not trust her, etc. I don't think it's there anymore.

Afterwards we talked about alot of things, and it's the best conversation we've had in months (minus the hurtful things I learned). But all in all, now that she's "clean" I think we have a foundation to work from that can be trusted - which is what everyone here was telling me we needed in order to move forward.

I asked her if she felt better after telling me all of this, and she said she felt worse. I asked why, trying to listen, and she said it was because she had to re-live all those things she did and she was ashamed of them. She said, "When I was doing it, I knew it was wrong that I wanted to talk to OM. But, I was so mad at you then that I just didn't care."

I think I feel much more safe now, and able to begin possibly rebuilding this.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

So, she's lied to you for most of your life together, lied to you more just recently, and now she CLAIMS to be telling you the "truth" about everything, so you trust her . . . 100%?

Really???

She told me everything,

Let's see, while you were trusting her "99%," she lied to you just within the past 30 days, as you describe in your previous post.

She was being 100% honest.

She said that if it happens again she will let me know.

Nothing there - just friends, and I believe it.

I think we have a foundation to work from that can be trusted

I think I feel much more safe now

God, you're an easy mark.

John, if you think that blindly trusting her, without verifying anything she's telling you, just based on a tearful conversation and what she CLAIMS is the truth, if you think that's what we've all been telling you . . . then you're not reading us very well.

I trust her NOT ONE WHIT, and still believe she's lying to you. But let's just assume for a moment that EVERYTHING SHE TOLD YOU IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. We could therefore trust her INTENTIONS, but I would STILL not trust her ability to PULL IT OFF.

Not without a no-contact letter, full and complete transparency, and a good MC who specializes in infidelity.

Will she agree to these things??

Puppy

[john28]

She's agreed to transparency and going to a MC. She even agreed to let me change the MC - which I think I am going to do. Someone who is experienced in infedelity and pro-marriage & SBT.

I've not thought about a no-contact letter. Can you elaborate? What would be the stipulations of such a letter?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I've not thought about a no-contact letter. Can you elaborate? What would be the stipulations of such a letter?

Something like this:

Here is an example of a No Contact Letter:

Dear [put name here],
The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I’ve caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best husband/wife that he/she deserves.

Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he/she will also be told of any attempts at contact.

Sincerely,


[name here]


It should be clear and straightforward, with no romantic flourishes. YOU, as the betrayed spouse, need to approve the final copy, and YOU need to either deliver it or mail it to her OM, so that nothing is added, embellished, or takena way to "soften" it.

What type of transparency plan are you going to put in place? I would strongly suggest that it contain at least ONE intel channel that she does NOT know about, for obvious reasons.

Puppy

[Dane]

John,
You need to do exactly what Puppy spelled out. Your WAW is/was not in her right mind yet.

Puppy = Wisdom.

[john28]

Thanks Puppy - that really helps. She's open to the letter, but it's been about a month since any contact with OM at this point. A letter might just fuel the fire. Maybe I can have her write it, and say I'm going to send it, but never do so? I don't know.

Tonight was MC. Apparently I haven't been DB as best as I thought. She described me as needy and clingy even while I've been DB. Mostly physical contact, and she gave several good examples. That's probably why the b-day dinner went south really quickly after getting home - I was way too touchy and stuff during all of it. I think if I would have just backed off and initiated no contact the whole night it might have turned out differently.

MC talk was interesting as well. MC kept honing in on "Why don't you want to reciprocate love to your H?" questions and W just kept saying "I don't know. I don't know why" She kept asking her over and over and the wife really admitted that she didn't know WHY she couldn't reciprocate love to me when I'm doing all the "right" things (short of being touchy/needy).

Anyways - I brought up that I was deeply frustrated that there was no physical intimacy in the relationship in the past 3 months, especially when the longest we'd ever gone without it was at most 2 weeks in our entire marriage. I explained how it was driving me absolutely insane to not share that intimacy and love with my wife, but I understood she couldn't do that right now and I don't expect that of her. I even added that if this kept up for much longer that was afraid i would do something "stupid" and seek that intimacy elsewhere.

Then things got a little more clear. The MC asked why W wouldn't be intimate (same question, just the word intimate instead of reciprocate) and W broke down and said "It feels like I have 2 children that I have to take care of that are needy and I'm always taking care of them emotionally." The MC said, "That doesn't sound like someone you'd like to be intimate with".

So, W even said that the reason she couldn't be intimate was because she felt she was being smothered. MC, me and W all agreed that I would back off a few days before her trip to see MIL and then try to initiate physical intimacy. W agreed that it seemed OK and she would try.

We'll see how it goes in the next couple days. I'm thinking that her going to the MIL for a week will create that space forefully since I suck at DB and will help the situation.

[PMA_Baby!]

Now where have I heard that before??? A really man is not clingy, or needy, etc...

You got part of your answer. Now MAN UP DAWG!!! But dont let that put your head back in the sand about her past issues.

Lead your family so you can check that one of the list.

NO MORE EXCUSES. NO MORE asking for hugs or affection. Let her CHASE YOU.

[john28]

Now where have I heard that before??? A really man is not clingy, or needy, etc...

You got part of your answer. Now MAN UP DAWG!!! But dont let that put your head back in the sand about her past issues.

Lead your family so you can check that one of the list.

NO MORE EXCUSES. NO MORE asking for hugs or affection. Let her CHASE YOU.

Game. Checkmate. Thanks for the encouragement!

[Coach]

"It feels like I have 2 children that I have to take care of that are needy and I'm always taking care of them emotionally." The MC said, "That doesn't sound like someone you'd like to be intimate with".

W even said that the reason she couldn't be intimate was because she felt she was being smothered

Do you understand this? Your wife is not attracted to you. What would make your wife want to jump your bones? What does she need from you?