I'm a relative oldtimer, getting D, but I am happy — in no small part from DBing and the people here. This is pretty much a copy and paste from a post I made in newbies... but I think it is soooo important....
I've been thinking about posting about detachment, and today I say JJ's thread on it, so, I thought I would go ahead... Detachment Thread I have watched so many people go through so much on this board, and when there is real growth and progress, it has almost always come with significant detachment.
Like JJ's post says, detachment is not giving up love and concern, it is about taking care of yourself and being good to the other person in a sane way.
I think most WAs flee because the relationship is too enmeshed, too entangled, for them to find the space they need any other way. Until you detach, it will stay that way. No matter the space you otherwise try to give them, the only way to create the real space you both need in the R is to detach.
Too many of us, I think, don't reach this point of detachment until we are done with the M, and have accepted D. I know that was true of me. But, with detachment comes clarity. I see how things might have gone differently if I had detached earlier. I see how holding on because of fear and other worries (I will be a horrible, shallow, faithless person if I let go, blah blah blah), got in the way of my goals when I was DBing H.
With what I see as the clarity of detachment, I look at my **DB friends in piecing** with frustration. So many have come so far, but stop short of full detachment and stay stuck. It is painful to watch the same cyclic behavior repeat over and over in their threads because they don't detach.
With what I see as the clarity of detachment, I look at my DB friends in separated with frustration. So many have come so far, but stop short of full detachment and stay stuck. It is painful to watch the same cyclic behavior repeat over and over in their threads because they don't detach.
One thing in particular seems to happen in both cases: there is an unrecognized or unresolved point of non-negotiation. Something that we think can't be negotiated because we are not detached enough.
I think successful DBing requires real detachment, that it is at the heart of Michelle's philosophy, and we too often lose site of that.
Maybe some of this has to do with looking for baby steps... we stay too close to the R. Baby steps are important, they give us hope. We can detach and appreciate them like a sunny day in winter, but don't allow them to keep you enmeshed, entangled, in the unhealthy aspects of your R.
Peace, happiness, and hope all increase with each stage of detachment we gain. JJ's post is about detaching from substance abusers, yes. It has the religious slant of Al Anon, which you may find helpful, or not. (Me, I don't, but it does not lessen from the value of its message.) Your WA may or may not be an addict. But, like I said, I think with the WAs there is almost always something going on that is related — one spouse is an addict (alcohol, porn, affairs, work, eating disorder) or one spouse had a parent who was an addict or one spouse is heavy into controlling behaviors (because of past trauma--often sexual trauma, past addiction, or a parent who was an addict). Often both spouses have something going on.... It doesn't matter why these R's are so enmeshed, it matters that detachment is key.
It is not easy. We think we have detached completely until we find the next level, and see how being detached less was getting in our way. So please, try....
It will help you through the initial months of raw desperate pain, the months of limbo, the resolution of the R through reconciliation or D.
I don't post much anymore — I'm not a great DB cheerleader anymore because I often see how it keeps people from detaching. This is NOT to say I don't think DB works, only that in our pain we often keep each other too tied to the R because it is so scary to cut the strings and see what happens. But, I do really value DBing, my DBBs (DB buddies), and the strength and compassion of so many who have helped me get to where I am.
So, I decided to post this in the hope that it will help move a few people along. Detaching is not giving up. Detaching is not stopping love. Detaching is the best thing you can do for yourself, your partner, and your M. My thoughts are always with you, my DBBs. I know how hard it is!!!! It is getting better, you know it is if you are here. This is just a tool to help...
Quote: One thing in particular seems to happen in both cases: there is an unrecognized or unresolved point of non-negotiation. Something that we think can't be negotiated because we are not detached enough.
What do you mean here? What exactly IS detachment? When you don't let your emotions hinge on every little thing the WAS does? I am not certain that I completely understand it at all.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
This couldn't have come at a better time, for me at least. I'm wondering if you've had a chance to follow any of my thread as I would like to ask you if you see me as being close to "detached" or if you think I'm still looking too close to the babysteps. Detachment is my goal and I think I'm 3/4's there or closer...but would like your insights if you have the time. Don't hold any punches!!
I think JJs thread does a much better job of explaining detachment than I could ever hope. But, what I meant here, was, that the sticking places in so many Rs, especially in piecing, seem to come at points at which the DBer thinks NOTHING can change with respect to some issue, because they are too close to it... too enmeshed, too much trying to manage the spouse... Too afraid to ask for what they want, or create and enforce boundaries, too afraid to lose what you've gained....
Here's a clue: if you find yourself stuck, and you keep talking about what the other person is causing you to feel, how they need to change their actions, so you don't feel that way, then you have not detached. They are still controlling your world.
For Example: Suppose you are stuck wondering if H is telling the truth about an EA not being a PA, even though he insists it wasn't. There is NOTHING he can do or say to convince you otherwise. You think it is his fault that you are so stuck, and see no way to get past it. Your happiness, your peace, then is too entangled in the R, WORSE, entangled in the OLD R. You have not detached from that. You'd either need to accept that it didn't happen, or that you won't ever know, and let it go. Yes, it would be nice to have that resolved, but maybe it won't be. The choice you can make now is to detach from that old R completely, do not let it run your world now. Choose to create the conditions for trust that you need in the NEW R. NOTHING you do now can go back in time and recreate them in the OLD R. If you can't do this, then that sticking point becomes non-negotiable. There is nothing either of you can do. H is powerless to change it, nothing H does can meet your demand for peace about the old R. Only you have the power to change it, but you have refused to recognize this as something you can change. Maybe it feels like you can't — but that, I submit, is because you haven't detached from old R. It is hard to see this until you do — indeed, maybe impossible. That is why detachment is key to progress.
I have no idea what your sitch is — I'd just suggest looking at the places you are stuck and considering how your being entangled, enmeshed, in parts of the old R, or parts of the new R in which you are recreating the old R, because you haven't detached, keep you stuck.
(((((((Cathy)))))))), didn't have a chance to go back to your old thread, but from what I can see, you've been going through some crazy stuff lately...
The one thing that leapt out at me, but which may be totally off base as I haven't read your thread, is that you *need* your H's respect to feel good about yourself.
You are trying to figure out how to change him, control him, to get it. You are afraid of requiring it because you are afraid of losing him, so you are afraid to set some boundaries.
What would happen if you merely reported when you did not feel respected: H, that doesn't work for me, I don't feel appreciated or respected. I would like to feel repected by you.
Set a boundary: how long will you wait for him to show you respect? Then, when he doesn't, it is your choice to experience that, not something he is imposing on you.... hmmmmm... do you see?
Also, try to detach simply from his disrespectfulness. I have no idea what your style is — but assume a woman stuck in the 80s stylewise, big hair, shoulder pads, etc..., or a 15 year old trying to recreate the height of the punk rock scene, criticized a great new haircut you'd just gotten. Wouldn't you just laugh? How silly, how out of touch.... It wouldn't affect you or your ability to be friends... Your H is just as out of touch with your worth. Your worth is not contingent on him getting in touch with it.
Of course, you want an M with respect in it. Step back, report your feelings, ask for what you want, and see what happens. Do not be afraid to set a boundary, or you will never get a new R that is what YOU want.
Also, as for the hiding stuff from your S, with the clothes thing, WTF??? lol... That is enabling, enmeshment, entaglement helping him portray things in a way he thinks they should be. Why not: I appreciate you're not wanting to hurt S, but I would feel used if I participated in creating a false world.
And, as for the "probably be back tomorrow"? Ahhhh, I just see your happiness all wrapped up in his choice there... Something you have no control over... you're mind going a mile a minute.... what can I do to make him come back tomorrow.... Detach-- you don't know if he will, have no expectations, do not try to influence the tides, do what makes sense for YOU either way...
So, anyway, just my two cents, from a DBer getting D, who hasn't read your sitch... But, that's the kind of stuff that drives me nuts, lol, reading the threads in piecing.
