"be a go getting", meant to say go getter, as in pro-active, the world is your oyster, life is great, type attitude, sorry for the typo, only noticed it now.
Rob, I don’t fault her. I know that’s all she can see right now. I haven’t said anything to her about the money in the account just for the reason you stated…it gives her security right now. I definitely understand what you’re saying that we remember the negative things and where she is with that.
I do understand and it makes sense to me that she left because she felt she needed to do this to survive. Given where I was I don’t blame her. Trust seems so difficult to earn back. I don’t think she will want to try until/if she can regain some trust that I will make her feel secure. I have a lot of work to do. I hope that I will be able to regain her trust. A big part of what I’m trying to work on is not be so controlling anymore. With all of the changes I have made so far, this is probably one that I still need to work on.
We haven’t filed our taxes yet. My wife had our accountant file an extension back in April. My W wasn’t sure if she wanted to file jointly or individually. We get money back if we file jointly. When we spoke this week she mentioned that she would file jointly if I signed an agreement for how the tax return was distributed. This is another case where I will sign that agreement too…do the right thing. She was definitely upset (no trust in me) when she talked about me not signing the commission agreement and something for the taxes although she never mentioned anything about the taxes, and that agreement, until this week.
I definitely didn’t think you were bashing me. I know you are helping me. Thank you for taking the time to write me such helpful posts. I read them several times before I respond so that I can really think about what you’re saying.
Originally Posted By: robx
Sometimes it's difficult to see the other person's point of view, you have to open your eyes to the possibility that another point of view looking at the exact same situation will yield an entirely different perception of reality. That's the case with you and your wife right now.
I thought this was wonderfully stated Rob.
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
As a business man it is YOU who is being naive and silly about having a SIGNED agreement...
She would be nuts to not have an agreement signed. She sounds like a better business person than you. Is that why your business failed?
You should know better. It should be YOU that is leading on getting the correct documents signed and in order. You are fighting her on an issue that she is NO DOUBT correct on.
You really can't see that this has NOTHING to do with trust?
You think it is a matter of trust for her to love you again.
The reality is that it is a matter of her FEELINGS. She doesn't feel love for you. You making this about her trusting you isn't true. There are people who come on this site every single day and still want to be with a person they obviously don't trust. It is about FEELNGS... All about feelings..
What's the commission on your home, $5K, $10K, $20K and if you're going to use it to pay for any amount still owing on your mortgage it would appear that you are not losing out on anything because someone would have to pay for that shortage, probably you. Who was taking care of the bills when you were in your 2 year slump? Since she's working, I'm assuming she was. She didn't have to sign an agreement, she just did what needed to be done because it HAD TO BE DONE.
Arguing over this is dumb.
Call her.
"Wife I will sign the agreement, bring it over anytime, the sooner the better so that my stupidity doesn't change my mind again on this, I definitely don't want to argue about this anymore. I know doing this won't bring you back to me and that's not the intention, my intention is just to show you that I will do what I said I would do, plain & simple, I am a man of my word and I'll sign a piece of paper to prove it to expedite the process of selling the home and taking care of what's owed on the mortgage. I also promise not to discuss the relationship with you anymore, you're free to do as you please and I won't stop you or stall/slow down the divorce process at all anymore, no more kids games. We're both adults, it's time I started acting like one. If you ever want to talk, call me, I'll be there and NO I don't have to sign an agreement on that one. You know I love you and wish you the best and want only good things for you regardless of what happens between us. As for the counseling, I don't want you to do anything you don't want to do and I don't want you to be uncomfortable doing this either, do what you feel you need to do, I'll be OK regardless."
And that's it.
Enough of this nonsense, that's why she's so bored of you, you're addicted to the drama more than she is!
Well?
Did you contact her yet on getting this commission agreement in place?
To me there's a difference between being business like with people and being business like with my W.
I agree with some of what you're saying Gucci but not all.
I think feelings and trust can and do affect one another. For example, I've read that a woman's feelings for their spouse can be linked to their feeling secure. I think that for my W to feel secure anymore that she needs to trust me again. I don't see how it's possible to feel for someone (enough to come back) if you don't trust them.
I do think she still has love but has buried it so deep to protect herself for her survival. I'll ask you a question Gucci if you don't mind. How do I get my W to get those feelings back for me? The only way that I can see it happening is to lead, be strong and confident, show consistency, not control her, continue to give her space, and have my actions be my word.
I hear what you're saying about feelings being important. I agree. I just think that feelings and trust aren't mutually exclusive.
Rob, no, I haven't called her yet. She was at work today.
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
I'll ask you a question Gucci if you don't mind. How do I get my W to get those feelings back for me? The only way that I can see it happening is to lead, be strong and confident, show consistency, not control her, continue to give her space, and have my actions be my word.
I know you want to believe that stuff, but you haven't done ANY of it since this started. You seem to think that not having contact with her for a month or two means that you are giving her space and showing her all those other traits that you mentioned.
Not in HER eyes. Let's see.. The flowers episode..... when she said it was a little too much (she was again being easy on you because your emotions are so fragile)(you are the feminine one in this relationship because of that. It is YOU always emotional, you always wanting to talk about the relationship etc. etc.)
With that being said...
Read again what just happened a day or two ago..
Just look at how emotional and begging and weak you again came across. I think you have destroyed it to a point that it may be past the point of no return of her. I believe your ONLY chance is to find another woman that your WS thinks you have the hots for. You just have NOT displayed the qualities that you mentioned for any (if at all) length of time. YOu always go back to getting emotional and begging and apologizing and weak. You get emotional. I don't think you realize it but she is still trying to let you down easy. You still fail to admit to yourself that "it really may be over)(which is an important step in letting go) You still are wanting to hope that "I still think she loves me deep inside and it is buried"... you have to STOP that kind of talk. You are in the "hope trap"...
Quote:
This is where things went downhill. I told her that I didn’t feel comfortable signing this agreement. I asked her if she would ever be able to trust me again. I said this would be a good way to bring some trust back. Then the bottom fell out. She said that I have done nothing since the separation to give her any reason to trust me. She said by me not wanting to sign the separation agreement when she left, that this gave her no reason to trust me. She said that I was still controlling and wanting to still do things my way. I validated, told her I understand but just because I didn’t want to sign the separation agreement I didn’t think that was a reason not to trust me.
Then I don’t know what happened. We both went silent. We were silent on the phone for about 3 minutes. Very weird to be on the phone with no one talking for 3 minutes. It felt like an eternity. I then said that I wish she wasn’t so angry with me. Then more silence…probably 2 minutes. Then I told her that I know she has no trust in me. Again, another 2 minutes of silence. Then I told her that I was sorry that she was so frustrated with me. More silence. Very strange, she didn’t say a word.
I don’t know what came over me at this point but I just started pouring me heart out to her. I started off by apologizing to her for many specific things in the marriage. I had written her a letter of apology but never sent it. Well I don’t have to worry about the letter anymore because I told her just about everything in the letter. I apologized to her for not only putting us in a financial crisis but also for things like being controlling, smothering, not listening, etc. I got emotional and I know I shouldn’t have. It felt like 9 months of emotion just came out. Remember, W and I have never had a talk about why she left or any R talks.
I told W the things that I have learned about our M, the things that I regret and the things that I now know I should have changed. I told her that I put myself in her position and tried to understand how she must have felt. I told her that it would be disrespectful of me to say that I know exactly how she felt but I was trying to understand. I got emotional again when I told her that it tears me apart to think how she must have felt, the stress, the pressure, the financial mess. She said nothing, totally quiet on her end. She just listened.
I talked for about 30-45 minutes and she just listened, literally did not say a word. Finally at the end of the conversation she said that she appreciated and accepted my apologies. She said it meant something to her. She said something about forgiving yourself first before you can forgive others. She said it sounded like I have done a lot of thinking about the M and our problems over the past few years. She again said that she appreciated me telling her these things. She said she had to go and we could talk later. I got myself together and said that it would be nice to be able to talk. I said that we haven’t talked in 9 months and it would be nice to talk together in private or in counseling. She said how she offered to go to counseling before but I didn’t want to go. Well no wonder, she wanted to go for closure before. I asked her if she would go to counseling now and that I had an appointment coming up. She said she would go.
She then said that she doesn’t see us getting back together. She told me that too much has happened. I told her that I wish I would have gone to counseling a year ago when she wanted to. She argued that it was actually two years ago. Whatever, I didn’t argue as the time was not really the point. I said that I don’t know if this M can be saved or not but that I am willing to try. I said I know it will be hard work.
She said she doesn’t feel like trying anymore. I said that everyone in life, at least once, deserves a second chance. I told her that I do not understand why she wouldn’t be willing to try. She said that even if we went to counseling two years ago that who knows if we still wouldn’t be where we are today. It was like no matter what I said to her she was going to come up with an answer for everything as to why she didn’t want to try.
She then got upset with me because she said I was trying to keep her on the phone when she told me 20 minutes earlier that she had to go, she had to be somewhere. I said that I wasn’t trying to keep her on the phone. She talked a little more and I talked a little more. Then she got upset again, really upset, and said that this was the old mza8 trying to control the situation. She said that this whole conversation I had been telling her about things I have changed…a new mza8. She said that when push comes to shove that the old mza8 came out. I told her that I understood and was sorry she felt that way. I said that she was right but not to take my entire conversation and think that I hadn’t changed. I said that this was a difficult conversation for me and that I didn’t want to get into a R talk but it just happened.
She wouldn’t go into too many specific reasons why she didn’t want to work on the marriage. She mostly repeated her answer that she couldn’t try anymore, that she had been through too much. It seemed pretty clear though that talking about trust and anger stirred up some of her emotions. She even admitted that she still had anger and no trust for me. She would keep saying that this is where she is today as far as not wanting to work on the marriage. She said that I should respect this is how she feels now. Then she made a weird comment. She said that people can change their feelings the next day, the next week or the next month. Then she went back and said that this is how she feels today.
That interaction took you back to SQUARE ONE and maybe even back of square one.. You ruined anything you think you accomplised. That is why I tell others in these situations that you DO need to beat yourself up over these backslides. They are so important not to have, that if you do have a backslide it could be the one that destroys the last glimmer of hope...
Gucci, I have to respectfully disagree with you that I haven't done any of those things. Sure I have. I'm the one taking care of the house, I was the only one dealing with the previous agent, I am the only one dealing with the bank, I am still working more than one job, I'm going back to finish my degree, I have left her alone since the flowers. Is this not leading quietly and strongly? If not then I'm must be confused.
My conversation this past week was 9 months of built up emotions. Ok, I regret letting my emotions show. I didn't beg her though. How do I always want to talk to her about the R all of the time? She hasn't talked to me about the R in 9 months. Am I missing something here?
You didn't answer my question of how to get someone to get those feelings back. I thought going dark was the right thing to do now? I have left her alone for about 3 months. We only talked recently because of the house.
I'm trying to listen to your advice but I don't think you realize that I am trying. Again, maybe I'm confused by the advice?
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
I've read that a woman's feelings for their spouse can be linked to their feeling secure. I think that for my W to feel secure anymore that she needs to trust me again.
I agree, and you can’t force someone to trust you. You can however, conduct yourself in a trustworthy manner. That is what builds trust.
Originally Posted By: mza8
I told her that I didn’t feel comfortable signing this agreement. I asked her if she would ever be able to trust me again. I said this would be a good way to bring some trust back. Then the bottom fell out. She said that I have done nothing since the separation to give her any reason to trust me. She said by me not wanting to sign the separation agreement when she left, that this gave her no reason to trust me. She said that I was still controlling and wanting to still do things my way. I validated, told her I understand but just because I didn’t want to sign the separation agreement I didn’t think that was a reason not to trust me.
I don’t want to sign any agreement with my commission. I will absolutely use my commission towards any shortage with the house but I don’t want to feel pressure and controlled by my W to sign that agreement. I don’t think my signing or not signing that agreement should mean she can or can’t trust me.
When someone refuses to put an agreement in writing, I immediately become suspicious. If they really intend to keep our agreement, putting it in writing shouldn’t be a problem..
You are right, this would be a good way to bring some trust back – by YOU signing the agreement.
What is it you validated? Sounds to me like you immediately invalidated what she was telling you.
I agree, and you can’t force someone to trust you. You can however, conduct yourself in a trustworthy manner. That is what builds trust.
You are right, this would be a good way to bring some trust back – by YOU signing the agreement.
What is it you validated? Sounds to me like you immediately invalidated what she was telling you.
Dudess, you comments are direct and put things in perspective for me. Thank you. I thought a lot about what you said.
Sigh...I've done a lot of thinking this weekend. Thinking of how I have acted during this S. I am proud of many changes I have made but I am still dissapointed in how I have handled some things. Dudess is right, I had yet another opportunity to listen and validate what my W WANTED and I blew it again by not immediately saying that I would sign the agreement. Sigh, yeah W, same old me on that one. Good God, I'm blowing it.
Here I was thinking about how I wanted W to reagin her trust in me and stupid me never thought that I need to regain HER trust. What the hell was I thinking? After 2 miserable years of letting her down I am blowing the opportunities to stand up for once and do the right thing for HER. I have to stop listening to those around me whispering in my ear not to do this or that and instead do what I know is right.
I must stop trying to control the situation. It's still one of the things I need to work on. I find myself defending myself here to those trying to help me. Stupid. I needed to take a hard look at myself in the mirror this weekend. I need to fully commit to what is being advised to me instead of half heartedly doing it.
I will call W tomorrow and offer to sign the agreement so we can get the house back on the market. I didn't want to bother her on the weekend. I'm going to use Robx's advice when I talk to her. We'll see how it goes tomorrow night when I call her. I feel so awful about my M getting to this point and feel so helpless not being able to do anything to make it better.
M 38 WAW 36 Together 19 years Married 12 years Bomb/Separated Oct. 09 I love my wife Sitch
