Puppy Advice

[steady]

i work on me to put my best person forward. mine starts with a smile and a good attitude. cute shorts doesn't hurt either.

LOL. Cute shorts. So true. They'll notice your inner beauty later.

Now that made me laugh out loud Dudess. :-)

[steady]

But when it comes down to fighting her then what's the point?

I do think it's different when there's infidelity. If one goes with the basic premise that affairs are highly ADDICTIVE (and I do), then you have to rightly view your spouse as an ADDICT. With that as your model, I think it's reasonable to assume you would try and fight for them, and for the marriage, for some reasonable amount of time. At some point, that noble fight jumps the shark and becomes some combination of pathetic, emasculating and emotionally damaging, and you have to let them go, just as you would not allow a drowning person to pull you under with them.

Puppy

Puppy I totally agree. At some point I think they all are like Addicts. They dream of a fantasy where their internal worlds will be straightened out once they get rid of 'the problem'. They become addicted to the path they've chosen where they can't even see any evidence or point of view which goes against the direction they're facing.

I know this is true for my W. I watched it over and over. She ejected anyone who played devils advocate with her and went against her rationalization; I watched as she irrationally rationalized away reality.

I didn't have to deal with infidelity (at least not that I was aware of) and I can easily see how that adds another layer on top of a WAS without an OP. I really feel for anyone here who has to deal with an OP.

I got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I know I did everything that I possibly could do with the tools I had. I can't expect anything else from myself. I can honestly hold my head high with the knowledge I didn't quit or fail.

I think in any sitch there comes a point where it becomes painfully obvious that fighting does become 'pathetic, emasculating and emotionally damaging...'.

It's like dealing with an alcoholic. No matter what anyone says, no matter what evidence is put in front of that person, the power of their denial either rationalizes it away or makes it as if what you are trying to show them is invisible.

It isn't until they 'get it' that the change begins to happen. I've seen it so many times in all kinds of situations.

But like I said, I found myself beating my head up against a wall. There was nothing left to fight except her. And I won't fight her in order to convince her to become committed to our M. My past experience shows it just doesn't work.

[DumpedforMIL]

LOL. Cute shorts. So true. They'll notice your inner beauty later.

well, they did say that guys were all about the visuals, right?

[DumpedforMIL]

It's like dealing with an alcoholic. No matter what anyone says, no matter what evidence is put in front of that person, the power of their denial either rationalizes it away or makes it as if what you are trying to show them is invisible.

It isn't until they 'get it' that the change begins to happen. I've seen it so many times in all kinds of situations.

often i don't think they 'get it' until it's too late.
i don't know if they become addicts but i agree that they irrationally rationalize away reality. it's almost as if they are afraid to admit they are wrong or have a problem.

what got me so down today was that last night, i watched ABC PrimeTime Family Secrets. it was about the divorced couple who were forced to live together due to the economic downturn. they were unable to sell their million dollar home and so they lived in separate bedrooms under the same roof for 9 months. to make the long story short, the w asked for the d. the h was devastated. no infidelity. throughout the interviews, it seemed like her reasons for d were due to her mind reading of her h's intentions. in the end, she found a place and moved out. in her final interview, she said that after moving out she has a greater appreciation for her h and that only now she realizes how much he meant to her.

thinking about it, still makes me sad. because the WAW irrationally rationalized away reality and didn't appreciate her h until he was no longer around.

[steady]

often i don't think they 'get it' until it's too late

I watch my sitch and see the role reversals. Pre-bomb, she wanted to repair the R, I didn't pay attention; post bomb, I wanted to repair, she didn't; the things I did in the past which she complained about she is now doing. I think the final loop that closes is the role reversal after the split up. I'm not sure how often the WAS returns only to be rejected by the previously LBS but I imagine you don't see a lot of it because they probably don't come back to post it here.

in her final interview, she said that after moving out she has a greater appreciation for her h and that only now she realizes how much he meant to her.

thinking about it, still makes me sad. because the WAW irrationally rationalized away reality and didn't appreciate her h until he was no longer around.

That's really interesting. I think what happens is they are all caught up in the drama and they get an obsessive tunnel vision. They are so focused and determined to get away that all their energy is put into that direction and that direction only. Add the fantasy of what they think life will be like once they get away into the mix - once all the drama stops and the smoke clears they are left there with nothing to push all that energy into.

This is why I can appreciate gucci/robx advice. When you actually detach it mimics the smoke clearing. You aren't feeding them the fuel they need to keep their tunnel vision going. You take yourself away from their focus to some degree. If you aren't behaving in a way that they can use to keep justifying their decision they run out of complaints and ammunition that's aimed at you.

When you resist their decision to leave you now give them someone/something to fight. That's the focus. When you tell them go ahead I'm leaving, they have no one to fight.

I know this post is a bit choppy. I'm having a problem getting my thoughts across in a clean way this morning and I really don't feel like cleaning it up...lol.

[DumpedforMIL]

I'm not sure how often the WAS returns only to be rejected by the previously LBS but I imagine you don't see a lot of it because they probably don't come back to post it here.

i think it depends on how long the sitch lasts. the longer it takes for the was to wake up, the likelihood of the lbs rejecting the was upon return is high.

That's really interesting. I think what happens is they are all caught up in the drama and they get an obsessive tunnel vision. They are so focused and determined to get away that all their energy is put into that direction and that direction only. Add the fantasy of what they think life will be like once they get away into the mix - once all the drama stops and the smoke clears they are left there with nothing to push all that energy into.

i've had friends tell me that they know of others who divorced in haste - thinking that it was for the better. and years later, they are still unhappy and full of regret. another friend of mine told me that her h cheated on her. after about 7 months of separation, he wanted her back. she said no. she said the 7 months were the worst months of her life, during that time she decided she deserved better. infidelity was a dealbreaker for her. to this day, she says her xh still thinks of her and is living with regret for what he did. she is engaged to be married to her long time companion now. i'm really happy for her.

This is why I can appreciate gucci/robx advice. When you actually detach it mimics the smoke clearing. You aren't feeding them the fuel they need to keep their tunnel vision going. You take yourself away from their focus to some degree. If you aren't behaving in a way that they can use to keep justifying their decision they run out of complaints and ammunition that's aimed at you.

i felt a sense of calm when i read the above.
it didn't feel like you were shoving gospel down my throat. there is nothing like being force fed information. it doesn't go down well nor does it get absorbed.
i learn best when there is a well thought out explanation behind it. thanks, steady.

When you resist their decision to leave you now give them someone/something to fight. That's the focus. When you tell them go ahead I'm leaving, they have no one to fight.

gucci told me to fight for what is important to me. the process has been rough but as long as i felt i was doing the right thing, and picking my battles, i always walked away feeling good about myself.
i didn't fight his decision to leave. i didn't encourage it either. it wasn't my decision to make.

I know this post is a bit choppy. I'm having a problem getting my thoughts across in a clean way this morning and I really don't feel like cleaning it up...lol.

it's actually pretty straightforward. i appreciate the post.

[gr8 day 2B alive]

I watch my sitch and see the role reversals. Pre-bomb, she wanted to repair the R, I didn't pay attention; post bomb, I wanted to repair, she didn't; the things I did in the past which she complained about she is now doing. I think the final loop that closes is the role reversal after the split up. I'm not sure how often the WAS returns only to be rejected by the previously LBS but I imagine you don't see a lot of it because they probably don't come back to post it here

steady, this is my sitch to a tee.

If my W decided to come back I would have a very difficult decision to make. As of right now she hasn't shown me any changes to herself. Funny how we want them to notice our changes ay first. Now her moves and actions are the ones I'm trying to notice change.

[DumpedforMIL]

i've been down that road .. first you'd take them back in a millisecond.
as time goes on and the alien WAS really starts looking like a klingon.
and you start to wonder if you want them back or not.

let me guess .. when you start looking for changes, you also tell yourself that the changes aren't permanent, right?
just like the WAS when you were making changes - they were saying to themselves, he/she will never change.

[steady]

I just re-read my last post and where I wrote 'you' should be 'we' (LBS). It was more of a general pointing and not one directly at you DumpedforMIL

[steady]

I posted a study on my thread and someone else's about a study that was done. It was pretty interesting.

Here's the link: Marriage/Divorce Survey

And this was something else I found in my research:

Regrets From Divorce

40% of divorced people regretted their divorce and thought it was preventable. (Australian and New Jersey studies. (William J. Doherty, PhD, Family Social Science Dept., University of Minnesota, [e-mail])

62% of both the ex-husbands and ex-wives said they wished their spouses had worked harder, and 35% of the ex-husbands and 21% of ex-wives said they wished they, themselves, had worked harder. Only about a third of the respondents of each gender thought that both ex-spouses had worked hard enough. ( National Survey on Marriage in America, Ever-divorced Respondents Give Reasons for Their Divorces,2005)

“lack of commitment” was the most frequently given reason for the divorce by every divorced respondents . (National Survey on Marriage in America, National Fatherhood Initiative, 2005)