tired of this

[MakingProgress]

BTW, my W withdrew the D petition. I'm praying that things continue to improve and she never refiles.

[A_goodman]

MP,

That is really great news! Both for you and for the rest of us. No, I'm not too proud to poach a little hope from your good fortune. Apparently, I'm selfish that way.

Anyway, You deserve it buddy. Keep working hard. And I'll keep your continued success in my prayers.

[A_goodman]

Ok. On to tonight's news of the stupid.

Did I listen to Ken62? Of course not. Did I succeed at MP's empathy formula? Not in the least. I did manage to choke down the urge to call her batty as a loon and a first class history revisionist. Which will turn out to be good practice for tomorrow nights MC. So at least there's that.

I guess it wasn't really too bad, but I feel stupid for getting roped into an R talk whereupon she made her usual convincing arguments about how I am mostly to blame and am totally oppresive to live with. Now it's up to 10 years BTW.

So here I am, trying hard to empithize and validate things that are pure rubbish to me, but that I know now are her perception, at least right now. She's telling me that other mental health professionals are warning her about men "like me" who can become violent and unpredictable in these types of situations. And how her family members and fronds all notice how domineering I am. I tried to explain the fear-shame thing from the link, she reminded me about a time I got up in her face. I DID NOTHING, but it did intimidate her. I apologized and told her it wouldn't happen ever again. I certainly didn't mean to intimidate her, but she told me I was lying. K. Do back to: "I understand that you feel that way..." She kept at it. Eventually, I saved a sliver of the night by explaing that whatever her friends told her and whatever fear she has doesn't apply any more because I have no intention of stoping her. MOF, if she doesn't want to be with. Me, I don't want to be with her either. I only have one life and I choose to spend it with people who want to spend it with me.

The ironic thing was, that all I did was ask her what had happened to make her mad this morning. (was going to practice my vallidation). She tried the old: "what do you think it was?" A true classic. I wasn't having any of that. I told her I had no idea and that she should just share do I can understand better what she as feeling. I should have pulled a Costanza and just quit right there. I was thinking that was pretty good; then the bottom dropped out.

It turns out that I had kissed her goodby this morning but it was like a "Aunt Sally kiss". Her words. She said it's obvious you are totally avoiding me and all affection, but if you don't feel it just spare me the half-assed attempts. The funny thing is that I really had no idea. I know I started to kiss her out of habit but then remembered my training and tried to back out. I honestly didn't realize she even noticed until she spilled the beans tonight.

I told he it was just a mistake. I joked I should getone crappy kiss every decade or so. Then I told her that I was in fact avoiding all contact with her Because that's what she wants. I plan to give her exactly what she asks for. I will not initiate any affection. If she wants it, I will be happy to respond, but I am done smothering you. She did not seem happy. Maybe the detachment is already hiting home in some way. A guy can hope.

I'm just really mad at myself for not letting it alone altogether.

[A_goodman]

Postscript:

Ok last night I hammered my last post out on my phone sitting in the bathroom after my post-workout shower. (not proud of it, but I needed to make sure I didn’t get busted on this site. Don’t really want W to come across all this and blow my cover) Anyway, while I was trying to correct all my typos, she storms down the hall and bangs on the door. Askes if I’m EVER coming out. She needed in to wash up for bed. I thought she was already sleeping. Anyway, she made a rather rude comment and I told her I’d be right out.

When I came out, I went down the hall and told her: “I would appreciate it if the next time you are upset about something, you will come tell me BEFORE you get angry so that I can act appropriately.” MAN, the sh_t hit the fan. She was fired up. All kinds of venom spewing. I need to work on being more effective in this, but I did not back down. I told her that I asked a reasonable request and that I would not accept or tolerate her behavior. That, if she doesn’t let me know she’s getting upset about something, I will not take responsiblity for her anger. I realized that my voice had risen to meet hers and I eventually told her that the discussion was over. Which did not really shut her down all that much. I just kept repeating that I was done discussing it. Eventually she went about her business and I went to bed. Was I calm? No way. I was hopped up on adrenelin and had the “jimmy legs”, but I tried to not show it or take the bait. I had tried to leave the scene after my pronouncement, but she followed me to the kitchen. I now realize I should have walked out of the house,but I was in my skivvies and didn’t want to get locked out that way. Plus I’m not savvy enough to recognize when I’m getting in too deep before it happens. I will start taking pauses before I respond to things. Regardless, It felt good to not be the doormat or rise to her level in the argument.

So she shut herself in the bathroom and I tried to calm down and go to sleep. It was a long time before she came out and I was still wired. She got into bed and I did not acknowledge her. After a long while, she turned towards me and made contact with me. Soon she scooted over and was basically spooning . At first I thought it was incidental, but I soon realized she was awake and it wasn’t by chance.

A LOT of thoughts were streaming through my head. I wasn’t sure if this was a turning point or a new angle. I remembered telling her earlier that whatever affection she wanted would have to be initiated by her. So I rolled over and looked into her eyes. They were sad and sincere. The empathy I felt was not a technique. It was real. I get it MP. For the first time, it wasn’t about me and I really understood and felt real empathy.
I felt very sorry for her at that moment. I put my arms around her and held her close for a long time before telling her that I finally understood. I told her I didn’t get it before and was sorry for not believing she was really in pain. And that I was sorry for making her feel this way. That I never would have acted or failed to act in ways that hurt her if I had known. I told her it wasn’tuntil I actually let her go that I stopped feeling like a wounded animal all the time

Eventually, what came naturally before came back to us for that one moment in time. It was the first time in over a month and the first time that it felt right, not forced or tentative since this whole damn thing started in March.

I’m not Pollyanna. I am reading NOTHING into it and expect nothing to change, but it was wonderfull. Actually by the end, I had become very emotional. I remembered reading somebody’s thread on here. It was a lady who had a WAH who changed his tune, but it was too late. One of her posts was about ML to him after she had let go fully and knowing it would be the last time ever. She said it was sad, but as good and free as old times. She called it a wonderfull closure to an important time in her life. Whoa. We said some strong things to each other in our earlier conversation and truthfully, I was very doubtfull that we would ever be able to meet each other’s needs/boundaries and reconcile. So as it was coming to the end, I was contemplating whether this was actually the bookend to our R. The lady from the post was right. It was sad, but also a high note to go out on.

I kissed her tenderly this morning and told her thank you for last night. In my mind, it was thank you for these years. I don’t know what will happen, but I’m ok with it. Yes, I love her. Yes, I want to stay married to her and grow old together. But if it doesn’t end up that way, I’m ok with it. I think I can now be empathetic and also confident that I don’t want her so badly that I want it over her happiness and my own. I hope this peace stays with me.

[DaddyLongShanks]

I don't think I understand what you're getting at Longshanks.

Do you think we're feeling entitled and much too glib?

Although, the concentration camp for LBS survivors IS kind of funny.

WAS's do what they do because they feel entitled to do so. After all what is poor old LBS going to do to them.

LBS's end up looking like a concentration camp victim after a while.

[DaddyLongShanks]

I want alll you guys (and ladies) to know that I would be a total basket case without your help and examples. Thank you.

I will stay strong. And empathy will be hers to claim if she wants it.

Many of us would be basket cases or mad men or mad women if we did not understand what was going on. Our mind, my mind for example was stuck on love logic for my situation, thinking why would this person do this if they love me, and the mind would rationalize it. The mind would rationalize the spew and living in the spew or the reality that the WAS presented for me in my case was a very crazy place, because it just doesn't make sense. After I understood what was realy going on, and not having to lie to myself or make up reasons for it - there is nothing to be crazy about. Still anger and occasional depressive thoughts from the fact of it would creep in. Today, I realize that the WAS is just someone who doesn't really give that much thought to me, they don't really think about me, and when they do its usually really messed up stuff.

When it gets really bad, the "letting go" tactic is obviously the right way to go.

[MakingProgress]

Good for you, Good -

Just understand that it is not a linear process. Overall, it may get steadily better, but it's not better every day and you can expect setbacks. Telling her you get it and you are sorry is an important step.

[A_goodman]

MP,

Thanks for the encouragement. "Nonlinear" is a good description. Also "unsteady". I'm an engineer, and I always hated classes with either word in the title. I knew they would be a total "B". Can't get much more nonlinear than a sudden, dramatic disconnect. Or more unsteady than the shifting sands of WAW dynamics.

I would take any improvement, but am ready for the end game if it goes that way too. I have made my piece with it. At least for today anyway

I'm a little apprehensive about MC tonight though.

Cheers,

[Ken62]

Goodman, you'll be great tonight in MC just like you were last time. Don't worry about not following my advice. You get what you pay for.

Please be careful with your W. I'm very happy for you and the intimacy that you shared but I also worry about her possibly "tagging" you as Puppy likes to say. It may have been sincere or it my have been a powerplay on her part. Just be careful.

The other thing I want you to remember about MakingProgress and myself is that I believe his sitch did NOT have an EA or PA and mine did and I believe that that one thing makes sitches VERY different. I'm very happy for MakingProgress and very envious of how much he was able to read and process all that he has read and to use it to his advantage in his sitch but all sitches are different and infidelity adds a very big wrinkle in them.

Be strong and confident!

[A_goodman]

Ken,

Thanks bud. I will try to remember all that I have learned here. I know he will want to discuss this list, but that there won't be time for all of it. I plan on asking for clarification on the things that I don't fully understand. I also want to discuss the money issue since that came after the last session.

I guess really I just want to learn what needs she has that I didn't meet. I told her during our discussion last night that the list did not really address her NEEDS just seemend like an extensive record of justifications to describe her present state.

She mentioned that 10 years ago, she did things that at the time seemed logical to her, but that were the harbingers of our present state. After the EA three years ago, I was so happy to have her back that I just worked on a similar (much smaller) list of my shortcomings and didn't really want to dredge it up. Bad mistake. That was the perfect time to explore this and try and get to the bottom of it. Now here we are again. And she has been unhappy for half of our relationship. So, to me THAT is the crux of the issue. She says she doesn't know; which is exactly what she said three years ago. I can't drop it this time. All I really want is to know what happened and that is the key to it. So I hope MC can see that too and maybe help uncover what it is.

So as I see it, my assignment tonight is to ask my questions, voice these concerns and further explain what my boundaries are going forward. All the while, being empathetic and validating her feelings, while also remaining detached and letting her go. Then hope the MC has enough savvy to run with it. 50 minutes. No sweat.

Afterwards, My Cub Scouts are going to hold a kite flight at the lake. So I'll be running to that and having a little fun with my sons and the Pack. Tonight I am definately going to have a beer on the porch. Just one though, I have to stay sharp 24-7.

Game Face!