Looking for help with WAW

[mza8]

Sigh…tough day yesterday.

I haven’t posted much, been trying to use the advice given to me. Unfortunately I had a rough conversation with W today. Sorry for the long post.

We needed to talk today about the house. The contract with our agent expired and the agent didn’t seem like she wanted the listing anymore. W left me a voice mail last week that she reconsidered the house price and wanted to lower it. I was busy over the weekend and yesterday was the first time we could talk about it.

W called me yesterday afternoon and we discussed lowering the house price and going with a different agent. I decided not to move back. Selling the house is the right thing to do and I don’t need the pressure of trying to keep the house on my own…it’s not worth it. I also know that my W wants it sold.

So I told my W that I would be willing to list the house this time and use my portion of the commission and put it back towards the house if we needed it to make-up the difference in what we owe if we didn’t get enough from the sale. I had made this offer to her the first time months ago but she didn’t feel comfortable with that unless I signed something saying I would use my commission to pay any shortage on the house. So when I made the offer tonight she brought up me signing this agreement again. I told her that I didn’t want to sign anything and that she should trust me. I told her by me being the agent we could lower the price much more because we wouldn’t have to pay all of the commission to another agent. By lowering the price we could sell this house much quicker. I offered to her that we relist it with a really low price which I knew would make her happy. She definitely like my idea but then brought up wanting me to sign this agreement.

This is where things went downhill. I told her that I didn’t feel comfortable signing this agreement. I asked her if she would ever be able to trust me again. I said this would be a good way to bring some trust back. Then the bottom fell out. She said that I have done nothing since the separation to give her any reason to trust me. She said by me not wanting to sign the separation agreement when she left, that this gave her no reason to trust me. She said that I was still controlling and wanting to still do things my way. I validated, told her I understand but just because I didn’t want to sign the separation agreement I didn’t think that was a reason not to trust me.

Then I don’t know what happened. We both went silent. We were silent on the phone for about 3 minutes. Very weird to be on the phone with no one talking for 3 minutes. It felt like an eternity. I then said that I wish she wasn’t so angry with me. Then more silence…probably 2 minutes. Then I told her that I know she has no trust in me. Again, another 2 minutes of silence. Then I told her that I was sorry that she was so frustrated with me. More silence. Very strange, she didn’t say a word.

I don’t know what came over me at this point but I just started pouring me heart out to her. I started off by apologizing to her for many specific things in the marriage. I had written her a letter of apology but never sent it. Well I don’t have to worry about the letter anymore because I told her just about everything in the letter. I apologized to her for not only putting us in a financial crisis but also for things like being controlling, smothering, not listening, etc. I got emotional and I know I shouldn’t have. It felt like 9 months of emotion just came out. Remember, W and I have never had a talk about why she left or any R talks.

I told W the things that I have learned about our M, the things that I regret and the things that I now know I should have changed. I told her that I put myself in her position and tried to understand how she must have felt. I told her that it would be disrespectful of me to say that I know exactly how she felt but I was trying to understand. I got emotional again when I told her that it tears me apart to think how she must have felt, the stress, the pressure, the financial mess. She said nothing, totally quiet on her end. She just listened.

I talked for about 30-45 minutes and she just listened, literally did not say a word. Finally at the end of the conversation she said that she appreciated and accepted my apologies. She said it meant something to her. She said something about forgiving yourself first before you can forgive others. She said it sounded like I have done a lot of thinking about the M and our problems over the past few years. She again said that she appreciated me telling her these things. She said she had to go and we could talk later. I got myself together and said that it would be nice to be able to talk. I said that we haven’t talked in 9 months and it would be nice to talk together in private or in counseling. She said how she offered to go to counseling before but I didn’t want to go. Well no wonder, she wanted to go for closure before. I asked her if she would go to counseling now and that I had an appointment coming up. She said she would go.

She then said that she doesn’t see us getting back together. She told me that too much has happened. I told her that I wish I would have gone to counseling a year ago when she wanted to. She argued that it was actually two years ago. Whatever, I didn’t argue as the time was not really the point. I said that I don’t know if this M can be saved or not but that I am willing to try. I said I know it will be hard work.

She said she doesn’t feel like trying anymore. I said that everyone in life, at least once, deserves a second chance. I told her that I do not understand why she wouldn’t be willing to try. She said that even if we went to counseling two years ago that who knows if we still wouldn’t be where we are today. It was like no matter what I said to her she was going to come up with an answer for everything as to why she didn’t want to try.

She then got upset with me because she said I was trying to keep her on the phone when she told me 20 minutes earlier that she had to go, she had to be somewhere. I said that I wasn’t trying to keep her on the phone. She talked a little more and I talked a little more. Then she got upset again, really upset, and said that this was the old mza8 trying to control the situation. She said that this whole conversation I had been telling her about things I have changed…a new mza8. She said that when push comes to shove that the old mza8 came out. I told her that I understood and was sorry she felt that way. I said that she was right but not to take my entire conversation and think that I hadn’t changed. I said that this was a difficult conversation for me and that I didn’t want to get into a R talk but it just happened.

She wouldn’t go into too many specific reasons why she didn’t want to work on the marriage. She mostly repeated her answer that she couldn’t try anymore, that she had been through too much. It seemed pretty clear though that talking about trust and anger stirred up some of her emotions. She even admitted that she still had anger and no trust for me. She would keep saying that this is where she is today as far as not wanting to work on the marriage. She said that I should respect this is how she feels now. Then she made a weird comment. She said that people can change their feelings the next day, the next week or the next month. Then she went back and said that this is how she feels today.

I know I screwed up by getting into this R talk with her. I know I screwed up by getting emotional with her. Hit me with the 2x4s, I deserve it. As I said though, it felt like something inside me just vented all of my emotions and feelings for the past 9 months. She said we could continue this conversation later. I again asked if she would want to meet together privately or with a counselor, I asked her what would make her more comfortable. She said she would go to a counselor with me. I know she doesn’t want to go for reconciliation. I told her that it would be nice to just talk like we did today. For both of us to just tell each other our feelings and maybe get a better understanding of the other person. I said let’s not label why were going, let’s just go. So, I know she’s not wanting to go for reconciliation but she did agree to go. I think we have come to a point that it’s time to talk. Perhaps the counselor can help us communicate with each other without getting into pointing fingers at each other or placing blame. No matter what I said to my W tonight she would have an answer or excuse for everything. I can’t answer her one on one without her thinking I’m being controlling or the old mza8. So hopefully the counselor can help balance out the conversation.

W and I said we would talk more tomorrow night about next steps for house. I don’t want to sign any agreement with my commission. I will absolutely use my commission towards any shortage with the house but I don’t want to feel pressure and controlled by my W to sign that agreement. I don’t think my signing or not signing that agreement should mean she can or can’t trust me. I feel like how I handle that will be scrutinized by her. After today’s conversation I feel like she is keeping score of what I do to show change.

I was so frustrated with myself after the conversation. I know I did everything wrong. I couldn’t believe I was having this emotional conversation. I know it went against DBing that I have worked so hard to do. I know I shouldn’t have expected any different response from my W at this time. I do however, think that this conversation might have at least started the long overdue talk about the M. In this conversation we agreed to go to counseling. She knows why she wants to go and I know why I want to go but at least we are going. Maybe that’s a start.

As always any advice or comments are welcome.