Looks like this is where I will end up

[Momto3girls0928]

I am fairly new to this site and have really only posted a few times. Long story short...H left right after Easter when I found text messages indicating an emotional affair. He had been indicating he was unhappy in M for the past year and left several times, only to come back within a week each time. Was never willing to talk about the apparent problems or go to any sort of counseling. The emotional affair turned physical, of course. In late May, he ended it with the OW and came to apologize to me saying he wanted to talk, spend time together, and see where things would lead with us. I of course wanted this more than anything. Despite the fact that I was reading DBusting, I can see now that I made several mistakes, pushing him for R discussions and such, which just added tension and fighting. Around the 4th weekend it appeared H might be pursuing something with another OW, which he denied, stating they were only friends. While I was on vacation with children last week, I found out that he was indeed with the OW2 and had been staying at her house all last week.

This seems to be the sign of the end for us. He is staying there almost nightly, and even worse is the fact that I considered her a friend. They also have not been quiet about it, as her children know about it and so does half of our small town. Our own children had to be told then so that they would not hear about it from someone else. Our oldest is only 9 and this is not how I would have ever wanted this to be. I believe in keeping your dating separate from the children, especially when you are still married for God's sake. H says he doesn't consider either OW actually cheating since he hasn't been living with me. UGH!

So, unfortunately, it doesn't appear that any amount of DBing is going to work for us, and I have to accept that. I have tried to stipulate to him that the children should not be having any overnight visits with him at her house and that when he has the children on his weekends he should be staying at his Dad's house which is where he officially moved to in April. I don't know if it is within my rights to stipulate that, but it seems in the best interest of the kids. Of course, I realize I cannot really control what goes on during the days on those weekends he has the kids and know that they are all planning on trying to do something fun with H and our 3 kids and OW and her 3 kids. This is less than a week after my children have even been told. Makes me ill. He has, for the time being, agreed to my stipulations, though, so I guess that is good.

Now onto my questions. We had previously talked about a dissolution rather than a divorce as we felt that we could agree on everything. We had also talked about doing it ourselves. There is no property to divide, as we rent the house and he wants nothing in it. There is no debt really, as we had to declare bankruptcy 2 years ago due to job losses for both of us. He pays me child support faithfully and visitation more or less is working. He has agreed that we can put into the dissolution that he won't touch my retirement as I have a retirement through our state teacher's retirement system. He has a very small 401K that I don't want. I have a consultation with a lawyer tomorrow who of course says that it is too risky to do even a dissolution on your own. I am curious to know what I have to risk, and maybe others on here can offer me that advice also. I live in Ohio and it appears that is a split fault and no fault state. The lawyer stated on the phone that I could file for D instead on grounds of adultery but there is nothing in our case for me to really gain and its his experience that even when filing on grounds of adultery that the judges around here still grant the divorce on the grounds of irreconcilable differences so that one parent is not labled and adulterer, and I do understand that. He says that we can put into the dissolution papers that there will be no overnight visits at OW house until dissolution is final but that H may not agree to sign it. Could of course file for D and lawyer says that judge will have no problem granting those stipulations until D is final.

Also, is the fact that H can't come up with money for either D or dissolution anytime soon. I have always said that I don't want to shell out money for something I never wanted, as I always wanted and hoped we could work things out. Come September I can pay for D or dissolution either way, but it still sort of burns my butt.

Although I have had some very very low moments and some of those have been during this last week when I found out about betrayal of a friend as H's new OW, I am doing better I think now. There have been some very scarey moments for me when I didn't think I wanted to go on, but I have 3 daughters and always have to remember that. And, I have also started to realize that though I am lonely now, I have been lonely for a long long time now while married to H and him living here but spending no time with myself or the kids. I can't remember the last time he complimented me, held my hand, or made me feel that I came anywhere near first in his life. While there are moments that I feel that maybe I somehow failed him and made him treat me that way, I am also trying to believe in myself again and believe that I do deserve better. His own sister, who is ironically my best friend, reminds me constantly that while she loves her brother, he hasn't been a good H to me in a long time and that I do deserve better than that. God bless her, as I know it is beyond difficult for her to be in the middle and be my supportive best friend and also supportive of her brother whom she also wants to be happy.

Anyway, sorry this is so so long. It has been a long and very painful many months, and I am still very sad that it has come to this, but don't see any other way. So, I am looking for any advice and insight you all have. I don't know if this is where I should have posted, but it seemed more fitting as at is apparent that we are heading into the final chapter of this marriage.

[kml]

Hi hon -
Sorry you are going through this
Definitely get legal advice. It is important that you know what your rights are, and what is customary in a situation like this.

If your H is currently making concessions that benefit you (like the pension decision) then you may want to push forward. They become less generous as time goes on and any guilt wears off and they start hearing horror stories from other divorced men.

Sounds like the big issues for you will be child support and custody.

Have you been married long enough for alimony to be an issue? Does he make more than you? Who will pay for child care while you're working?

Make the most of your time with the attorney by being prepared with a list and some numbers. Also check out wife.org for some financial advice.

And I'd like to offer you a little bit of hope. I was married for 25 years, loved my husband madly, fought like hell against the demise of my marriage. But once he'd been gone a few months? Man, it was so NICE not walking on eggshells all the time around a man who didn't appreciate me. Dream big about the life you want to have, set some goals for taking care of yourself, learn something new (I learned to play the drums after my ex left and now I play in a rock band! )

Ellie

[SillyOldBear]

No real advice for you, have not been in your shoes. It just kills me that people "want to be supportive" of a guy who throws away his family for an affair so "he can be happy."
What does it take for people to figure out that good marriages make people happy, and affairs neither help achieve good marriages, nor do they make anybody happy?

If I ever live through some tragedy and decide to put a gun in my mouth, I hope someone near me cares enough to stop me instead of being "supportive." Geez.

[Momto3girls0928]

Thanks and I am going to consult the attorney at the very least to find out my options and then decide from there what is the best way to proceed.

We will be married 10 years this October but alimony won't be a question. I make around 48 thousand as a school teacher with nearly two Masters degrees, but he makes only around 20 thousand. Our youngest child is two and is the only one in daycare fulltime while I work. Someone once hinted to me that he could ask for alimony but I know him well enough to know it won't occur to him and he wouldn't anyway. He has said that I will have custody of the children and he has no problem with that as long as he has his visitation. He has never been a hands on Dad, so his visitation one evening a week and every other weekend is about all he can handle. He has entered into a whole new world with his children now. Of course, it helps now that OW will be able to help him out and help him to amuse the kids during the day. He is planning on doing fun things with the kids that I could never get him to participate in before. I should be thankful that he is trying to be a better Dad, it just gets under my skin a little. As for child support, he pays me every two weeks our agreed upon amount, which according to the calculators and someone at the county child support office is pretty much right on the money. He is aware that when the day comes that we are in court, that child support will be withheld from his paycheck. County office also told me previously that I could tell the judge that they do not need to go retroactive on the child support. Apparently, typically all the money he is giving me up until the time we are ever in court is considered a gift but I can intervene for him, and said I would since he has been paying without issue from day one.

I am looking forward to the day when all of this isn't so painful, and like I said I am feeling better the last couple of days. There is still part of me that loves him and wishes we could work things out, but he does not seem to be willing to and says he as much as considers us divorced right now. That plus the fact that he doesn't consider what he is doing as cheating is enough for me to give up hope I think. There is also the part of me that seems to be getting stronger all the time that says that I was not a horrible wife by any means, and although I am not perfect, I tried and was willing to do whatever it took to save this marriage and keep my family together. I am trying to get back to the time when I felt smart and attractive and wanted. The 24 pounds I have lost in the last 3 1/2 months is certainly helping and I am hoping that the IC I am starting next week will help also.

As for my sister in law, she has tried against everything to encourage him to try and work on this marriage. She is very Christian and really doesn't believe in divorce except in extreme circumstances. She never felt that any of our problems were ones that couldn't be solved together. Nonetheless, he is going to do what he wants. He probably can't even tell anyone why he has been so unhappy, and I have my doubts that the R with the new OW will work out in the end either. He is chasing after something without even knowing what it is he looking for. I can't ask her to turn her back on her own brother so I understand she is doing the best she can while being in the middle.

[kml]

You know, the typical story is that the WAS has depression issues, thinks it is related to their marriage, chews their arm off to get out of the "trap", and at some point down the road (sometimes years later) figures out that their unhappiness comes from inside.

(Don't you love the "being dumped" diet though? Works better than anything! I keep saying I'm gonna do a study on it one day and figure out the biochemistry of it and make a fortune!)

I suspect you, like me, will find after a while that you wonder why you put up with so much for so long. I've only had one relationship since my ex left out, and sadly that didn't work out in the end, but it was MARVELOUS to be with a man who apparently didn't see ANY of the flaws that my ex was so focused on!

Now - as for the divorce stuff - sounds to me like you should go ahead and strike while the iron is hot, before your ex gets any ideas in his head about getting alimony from you or part of your pension. Normally, I would say wait for that ten year mark so that you could claim social security based on his income in the future if you wanted - but since he makes so much less than you, unless he's in training for a million dollar profession, it doesn't matter to you. And ask the lawyer if your H benefits in any way by making it to the ten year mark - would that give him more of a claim to alimony? I don't know why but ten years seems to be a magic number in many states. Either way, it may be worth it to you to hustle this divorce along - remember it's just paperwork.

Now, the REAL work for you, the REAL beauty of this website, is to own your own issues and work through them. Regain your health, your energy, your dreams. Improve the things that need improving. Rediscover the things you set aside to accommodate your ex. Set an example for your kids of strength and bravery in the face of adversity. Become financially resourceful and creative.

[oldtimer]

If you are going to D, it is important to look at it as business and make the best deal that you can. You can always be generous to XH later and take less money, offer more visitation, whatever. Right now, take care of yourself and kids as absolutely best as you can.

(1) I concur, strike quickly. STBX will only become less generous. I promise. And, he probably WILL think of alimony, especially when he has a new GF with kids who will be draining his resources. Even if he doesn't think of alimony, he WILL become more selfish. Right now, he's amenable to a pretty good deal for you. I'd snap it up. He wants the problem to go away as quickly and quietly as possible. He feels guilty and is trying to feel less guilty by being a good guy about the D. He doesn't want to put energy into anything about the old R, including working through the D. The more you haggle, push, etc., the more he'll pay attention and realize that he might want to get a better deal himself.

(2) Don't sweat even several thousand dollars. It won't matter two years from now.

(3) Don't try to control STBX's R with the kids. They already know about the relationship. Yes, share your concerns about them being exposed to overnights, but drop trying to control it. It is apt to get him riled up and to do things like go after your pension and alimony. It is apt to get GF involved in what she thinks he should go after as controlling STBX and GF's R with the kids makes the D a YOU against THEM thing rather than a YOU against HIM thing. Get OUT of his private life, and don't manage his R with the kids unless you think they are at risk for physical/emotional harm that would be actionable. That's how it will be when you are D, may as well start operating like that now.

(4) I'd ask for him to agree to keep paying at the same level of child support relative to him income that he's paying. So, maybe, state-mandated +5%, or 20% of his income, or whatever. That is, specify an amount that will grow with his income. But, include a minimum so that it doesn't fall if his income drops.

(5) Ask for child support to continue as long as the kids are in school full-time or up to age 23 max (whichever comes earlier) to help pay for college. It is far away, he'll probably be receptive. But, when they are actually in college, few kids around here seem to get support from the WAS. So, ask for it up front.

So, combining 4 and 5, maybe... Child support will be every two weeks at a minimum of (current rate). This amount will increase as income increases to be 5% above what would be mandated by the state, except that child support will continue while children are full-time students up to, but no later than, age 23 (or 24).

Really, I think the best way to protect yourself and kids is to go for a great deal now. A year from now, the deal will NOT be as nice.

----

As for your M, I'm not clear on whether you want to save it. It is still pretty early in your sitch, anything could happen. And, the sudden new R may well end just as suddenly.

But, really detaching, letting go, etc... is your best bet no matter what.

[Momto3girls0928]

You seemed to hit the nail on the head with the depression thing. I have thought the exact same thing for a long time now. When he moved out for a week last summer and then came back he said he didn't know what was wrong with him or why he was so unhappy and unable to deal with things at times. Sounded like depression to me, but of course not to him. Every time he would leave and come back I would want us to talk about whatever the possible issues were and he of course would not. He is not a great communicator at all. I blame myself for not pushing the communication issue with him, but was always afraid that it would push him out the door, and in the end it didn't matter anyway. I have told him that I don't know how he can look at himself in the mirror knowing that rather than communicate with me what it was that he was missing in the marriage, that he chose to walk away and turn to other women. I felt our marriage and our children deserved so so much more than that.

Yeah, the divorce diet is an amazing thing. I couldn't eat for crap for a long time, and sometimes I still have little to no appetite. I have lost 24 lbs since him leaving on April 10, but I am now actively trying to eat healthy, walking when I can, and trying to lose more weight. Losing about 15 more pounds will put me back to where I was before our 1st child.

I still have some down moments, but am also getting to the point where I am very very angry...at him and even at myself. When I met him I considered myself to be an attractive and intelligent woman with alot to offer. During the past 10 years I watched him continue to do whatever he wanted when he wanted, while I also worked full time, went back to school for my Master's degree online, took care of our daughters by myself, did all the housework and anything and everything having to do with the running of our household and family. There was no time for myself or any outside interests. I am angry at him for thinking it was ok for our marriage to be that way, and also angry at myself for allowing it.

Even though we have been separated for only 4 months, this marriage has more than likely been over for a long time, at least in his eyes. I know I am really not ready to spend time with any other men, but I find myself looking around with interest. I don't know if it is partly to do with showing him that I can do it too(which is really screwed up) or also partly looking for someone to show me and make me feel all the those things I haven't felt about myself in so long. Either way, nothing good can come from any of that and I know that.

In answer to someone else, yes there is part of me that still hopes the marriage can be saved, but I feel that I have tried all by myself for so long and prayed and prayed for it, all to no avail. I am not sure I have it in me to try anymore or wait anymore. It saddens me to feel that way. But he is seemingly happy with OW2, giving her the affection I haven't seen in I don't know when. My kids already knew her, because we were sort of friends, so they do like her and they like her 3 kids. Her kids seem to like him a great deal also. If and when I allow myself to think about it all too much, it just gets me even more down and depressed. It may not work out with OW2 which is honestly what I expect, but I don't know if it matters anymore.

I believe that I will do as you all have suggested, and will probably be filing myself in September when I have the money unless by some miracle he comes up with the money before then himself, which is doubtful. And you all have given me some things to think about that I had not really considered, like child support until age 23 or so and I do think that an increase in support is a very reasonable expectation on my part if his income goes up. In our state, I believe you can go back to child support and ask for more if the ex's income goes up by a certain percentage. He of course wanted me to agree some time ago, that I wouldnt ask for more. I eventually just dropped the fight and figured I would just do what I needed to when the time came. He recently applied for another job that would more than double his income. He hasn't heard anything as of yet, but I am watching and waiting.

Thanks for all the advice and although I am sad to be here, I look forward to chatting with all of you as I try to navigate through all of this and hopefully in the end find the person I used to be.

[cat03]

quick advice, get everything in writing! I had a noncontested D, in my state we were able to sign a separation agreement and we got everything down... I made him pay for the D, I told him for the get go 'you want this you pay for it'..I do agree though, that the more time passes the less generous they become.
In time, hickups will come up about visitation with the children, so make sure you take everthing in account, holidays, bdays, any thing else, my ex was mostly easy going but when he shaked up with this crazy woman boy did all the estipulations came in handy!

It is a long road, you will feel it all coming down on you like a ton of bricks for a long time to come... expect them, embrace them and let them go, you will be stronger, you sound good and strong... fill your mind/time with good reads, i highly recommend 'the spiritual divorce' and 'healing without scars'.

[Momto3girls0928]

That is exactly how I have felt from day one. If he wants this, even if it is do it yourself dissolution, then he should pay for it. Thing is I don't know when he will come up with money. He makes only 8.50 an hour and although he pays child support directly to me and is aware that when we go to court that it will then go out of his paycheck, he still has very little left each month. That is why he was living with his Dad, but now seems to be living with OW or shacking up or whatever. Child support doesn't care about his very high truck payment and insurance and cell phone bill, etc. Those are his choices. Also, when this is all said and done he will have to get his own health insurance instead of being on mine, and he doesn't know how on earth he is going to afford that. Oh well.

So, I can either wait for him to get money til God knows when, or do it myself which really kind of makes me sick at the moment. Friends tell me this will give closure, and maybe that is true but I'm not sure.

Yeah, I know and plan to get it all in writing...every little detail. Tonight he asked me for receipts for the child support he has paid me thus far. I said no problem, although I reminded him that child support did advise us that it wouldn't matter receipts or not, that it is still considered a gift in their eyes. They did say that I could go into court and verbally tell them that he had been paying and it was not necessary to back up the child support. I gave him my word and I meant it. I dont know if he is afraid now that my anger over OW2 will change my mind. I guess I will write up some receipts though. He is also trying to say to me again tonight that the only reason that I don't want the kids to go on overnight visits at her house is because I'm angry at him and her and afraid that they may like it there. Ugh. He now says that he will let me know his decision tomorrow about where he will stay with them overnight this weekend. He refuses to believe that I do firmly believe that it is not a good idea right away. In the end, I guess there is maybe nothing I can do. I don't know. I just want him to give the kids some time to adjust and get used to it all. Maybe I am going to have just give up on that point and give in. It gets totally exhausting fighting about this stuff with him while also fighting with our oldest who seems content to defy any and all rules in the house and be disrespectful and as argumentative as possible. I am feeling beat down tonight.

Sometimes lately I do feel good and strong, and others like tonight I just exhausted and ready to give in on everything. I know I can't do that though. Thanks for the ideas on the good reads and I will be getting them before this weekend I think as kids are going with him and possibly to her house. I don't think I am going to deal with all of that too well, and honestly don't know what to do with my time when kids aren't around. Haven't had time for myself in 10 years so it is overwhelming.

[cat03]

Same thing happened to me, idiotic x brought over a gf to live with him without the kids even meeting her beforehand..I ended up taking kids to a child C to help them cope, you might want to think about it, the C will also talk to dumb-dumb to explain him how this affects the kids ... it might not change much or anything at all, but it will help kids. Even the C laugh when I told him how my x thought my complaints had to do with jelousy 'he is so full of himself' she said... and they are at that stage.

Keep busy busy... it was hard at the beginning for me to find something to do with myself when kids were at their dad's...it felt so unnatural... and now I barely have time to do my stuff before the kids are back!

I found zumba, a dance workout what on top of keeping me in shape made me feel good about myself... join a work out class... also, I had no idea a reading group from church meet every week on one of the days I didnt' have my kids, I promptly joined. I started fixing the house, i painted it, tore down the old wallpaper...i made it my own and it felt so good! stay out, find your old friens, GAL GAL and GAL, you'll be fine hon... it will get better.