New Game- Exposed

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Yeah -- genuinely proud of the guy. Some definitely move faster than others; I can work with a guy like that!

[CD Bear]

I'm working on it.
I'll be a success story whether it recovers my M or not.

It's kinda funny. All of a sudden, I've seen the "friends" exchange out 4 or 5 times in the last 24 hrs.

[SunnyD]

Glad you mentioned Navajo, CD. Made me interested and I checked out his thread. I totally forgot about dealing with the "but we can still be friends, right?" issue. I can see that coming up with H, for sure!

I am working on my plan of action today as what I'm going to do when...and how. Still wishing I had some proof of the EA I feel must be going on. I am going to see if I can get ahold of H's phone tonight while he's sleeping. I tried this morning at about 4am but I swear, it just didn't seem like he was fully asleep and I got scared to do it. I guess I need to be ready with what to say if I get "caught" taking his phone. But...sorry... not trying to hijack your thread! lol

You're doing awesome! My brain is fried from class this morning but I'm still trying to think of some good one-liners for you. :-)

[CD Bear]

I'd like some advice, please.
I may answer my own question but bear with me.

To recap, she wants to talk this week. I said Thursday at 5:30.

In reviewing some notes I take for reference, I stumbled on this. I wish I knew who wrote it (guessing Robx or maybe Allen)

"Re: R convos. From my personal archives:


Here's the thing: if someone is in an ongoing, unrepentant affair, there are only a few types of conversations/communications they can have with their betrayed spouse, and ALL of them are cheeseless tunnels for the BS:

1) NEGATIVE ones. Blame-making, re-writing marital history, angry outbursts, fight-picking, etc. 'nuff said.

2) Seemingly POSITIVE ones. So long as they are still in contact with OM/OW and lying to their spouse about it, these are all "bullchit spin" at best, and outright GASLIGHTING and LIES at worse. And the problem is, the betrayed spouse inevitably sees this as "baby steps!" and true marital progress, when they are no such thing. They can lead to horrible strategic and tactical mistakes, esp. if the BS doesn't have a good intel system in place. Reading my old journal yesterday, I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.

3) LEGAL/FINANCIAL ones. These are best handled by your attorney, for the obvious reasons. If you start negotiating yourself, when you are way, way, WAY too emotionally entrenched in the situation (and also often running on too-little sleep and WAY too-little emotional needs of your own being met), YOU WILL MAKE FOOLISH MISTAKES and UNWISE CONCESSIONS.

4) FAMILY/LOGISTICAL ones. These are fine, but best handled via e-mail or text message. A cheating spouse will use these as a ploy to lure you into R convos and worse; SEE #1 ABOVE.

5) SMALL-TALK. This is fine, but only in RESPONSE -- don't initiate it if your strategy is to go "dim" and if it's to go "dark" you shouldn't even respond. If it's "dim," then only respond to one of every several communications, and usually delayed, because you're BUSY and GETTING A LIFE, remember?"

So, my question is that since it's very likely that one or all of the above is the reason, should I ask her to write me something instead.

I'd like to "get this done" before my vacation with D but not sure if an "in person" is best.

I'd like to look her in the eyes when I let go and tell her "maybe we could be friends one day" but the above quote leaves me thinking I could ruin my vacation rather than relax.

Any thoughts tonight?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

It was me, CD -- I wrote it.

I think this is not the same, however, as the FIRST convo that you have, post-discovery of the affair. I do think THAT convo needs to happen.

But I also think there is a lesson in this archived piece, and that is "Don't expect too much productive from your meeting with your wife."

Don't try to do this in writing. It will be viewed as chickenchit.

Puppy

[CD Bear]

REALLY?

Seems a little 'harsh' for you. I'll note that.

Both points taken.

A needs to be confronted. The depth of her honesty tested.
Writing is Hen-Hooey. Got it.

Lots of reading to do. Lots of calm to practice.

Thank you.

If you run across an archival "bullet point list" or anything inspirational, I will appreciate it.

[navajo]

I'd like to look her in the eyes when I let go and tell her "maybe we could be friends one day" but the above quote leaves me thinking I could ruin my vacation rather than relax.

Any thoughts tonight?

I know each situation is different due to circumstances and personalities but I can tell you that today, I was a little bit blue at one point during the day, but it didn't last long. the overriding feeling though is calm, relaxed and upbeat. I think it REALLY helps to just get the ball rolling in a direction. Limbo is where the bad feeling cropped up for me. What if this, what if that... Just finally making the decision and making myself and my boudaries and consequences understood really calmed me. You just HAVE to make sure you are really at the point that you can and WILL let them go if needed for your own sanity and self worth.

I think you and your D will have a BLAST on vacation whichever way your talk goes Thursday!

As a final note, I am NOT trying to give advice here! I am WAy too new at this and still feeling my way in the dark. I am only relaying my current thoughts. Listen closely to Puppy. He has your best interests in mind and is damned good at this!!!

(OK, I need to point out that the CAP key only works occasionally on my keyboard so i am not intentionally missing the i's etc. It annoys me no end! HA!)

[CD Bear]

Well, I think that's where my challenge is going to be- BOUNDARIES.

As far as the A, she has the choose the A or work on the marriage. I can't bring up all the stats or anything. She won't listen. I guess all I can tell her is she'll OWN the divorce. I 'should' own up to my 50 of the marriage problems.

I can't legally enforce keeping D away from OM.

I can't legally kick her out of house.

All I can do, if she doesn't say "M", is tell her:

"Then all I have to say is this. I will not live in an open marriage. I will not hide your lies or affair. They are disrespectful. I will send you info on a few mediators I have looked into. XXX is the best choice. I will set an appointment for as early in August as possible to draw up our Separation Agreement. I should have all my banking and documentation gathered by then. You should, too.
Divorce is my last option. It is clear that it is your first and easiest. What you are doing to this family is irresponsible. But if this is your decision, then you will own it.
Perhaps one day we can be friends.

I have to go out. See you later."

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I think that's really strong.

[navajo]

Well, I think that's where my challenge is going to be- BOUNDARIES.

As far as the A, she has the choose the A or work on the marriage. I can't bring up all the stats or anything. She won't listen. I guess all I can tell her is she'll OWN the divorce. I 'should' own up to my 50 of the marriage problems.

I can't legally enforce keeping D away from OM.

I can't legally kick her out of house.

All I can do, if she doesn't say "M", is tell her:

"Then all I have to say is this. I will not live in an open marriage. I will not hide your lies or affair. They are disrespectful. I will send you info on a few mediators I have looked into. XXX is the best choice. I will set an appointment for as early in August as possible to draw up our Separation Agreement. I should have all my banking and documentation gathered by then. You should, too.
Divorce is my last option. It is clear that it is your first and easiest. What you are doing to this family is irresponsible. But if this is your decision, then you will own it.
Perhaps one day we can be friends.

I have to go out. See you later."

As I said, I am very hesitant of giving ANY advice here, so I hope Pup or one of the other vets will check in, but that seems a bit long and vindictive (you typed twice that she will "own it"). You and I and everyone else here understands that this is a true and accurate statement (on the surface), but I think this is going to shut her down.

Also, IF IT WERE ME, I'd drop the friends part unless/until she brings it up. For this talk, it should be short and to the point..."I WILL NOT live in an open marriage. If you choose the OM over our marriage and children, then I agree that it is over". Exit.

As I said though, please wait on one of the vets to chime in and I hope i am not throwing a wrench in here!

I KNOW it is scarey and it seems so counter productive, it just CAN'T work, but, I'll tell you, while I was typing this response, my W had emailed me twice! Nothing prior to our talk like this, and now TWICE! I haven't responded as I am going as DIM as possible with the kids and other stuff, but it is the shock and awe factor I think.

I feel for you and will keep you in my thoughts over the next couple of days. Hang in there!

Tom