Near WAW with EA - almost textbook sich

[Puppy Dog Tails]

DMB,

Way, way, way, WAYYYYYY too much.

Strong men are men of much ACTION, and very few WORDS. And it is a tenet of DB to not TALK about your changes, but to live them out, quietly and confidently, in front of the runaway spouse.

Good god, man, I couldn't even get thru all of that, and studying marriages and infidelity is my hobby and my passion!

She's not looking for a chick best friend -- she's looking for a husband who will make a strong, principled stand to fight for his marriage, in my opinion.

You are like me -- you fancy yourself a wordsmith. I thought if I could just put together JUUUUST the right combination of words, and deliver in them in JUUUUUUUUUST the right way, I could win my wife back and make her see the error of her ways.

Unh-uh. Doesn't work that way.

Look, I"m not saying that everything you've written isn't TRUE and GOOD. It probably is (again, I never made it thru it all). I'm saying that "making grand pronouncements" about your changes doesn't work.

I think you need to shoot for about 90% less. Seriously.

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

P.S.

I would love to get Greek's perspective on this, as a woman, as well.

[doing my best]

Awesome. Session in 50 minutes so at least I have your input and you ARE SO CORRECT. Looking for the right combo of words. What the heck is wrong with me!!! Thank you so much for the input!!

DMB

[Puppy Dog Tails]

It was a beautiful song
but it ran too long,
If you're gonna have a hit
you gotta make it fit
So they cut it down to 3:05 . . .

-- Billy Joel, "The Entertainer"

[Ready2Change]

Strong men are men of much ACTION, and very few WORDS. And it is a tenet of DB to not TALK about your changes, but to live them out, quietly and confidently, in front of the runaway spouse....She's not looking for a chick best friend -- she's looking for a husband who will make a strong, principled stand to fight for his marriage, in my opinion.

The less words, the bigger the punch. Actions always speak louder than words.

Live what you wrote.

[doing my best]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Yes in the MC session today I held back on all of my gushing. The only thing I really hit hard on was the EA situation and gave examples of what I have learned. Asked W if she would read about EA's and how they develop and how they can be recovered from on her part....she said no to reading anything. But....if I take her for her word and that there is no contact....then she is going through a very heavy withdrawal.

This OM was not just any old BF....they were pre-engaged in college....talked about houses and children and their wedding. Then he never called her after her graduation party in....1988. Yes 24 years ago....she never heard from him again until March 2010. They reconnected through FB and she now says that he "let her go because he thought she would never want to live her life in Kentucky". She does not get it that he dumped her. So 3 months later (September 1988) she runs to Florida and meets me. Now that she has reconnected with him she feels she married the wrong guy (me)due to a "misunderstanding".

Anyway W still says she wants to be on her own. MC says why and W says so she can begin her healing process. Can't focus on herself now because she is concerned about me....says she still cares about me and excited to see me so happy about my changes. But the conversations are draining and she cannot focus on herself. My mistake is that we talk a lot and I have shared too much stuff with her...so MC says OK....no more R talk unless it is here in the office. I am fine with that. It is a DB technique that I have trouble following so now I have an order from the MC.

Other reason to be on own is that I am still exhibiting controlling behaviors. W says "you are like my dad...he did the same things and I can't take it." She is so super sensitive about this for some reason. So we walked through behaviors and stuff like that. I will need to do some research into this because it apparently is a "thing" with me. W says they are things I do not realize that I am doing.

That's it for now. We go on a vacation next week with the family to visit her side. Interesting....she does have one sister whom she has confided in...about the sich BUT W says she has not told her about old BF. In fact W has not told anyone about what is going on. Not sure why. I have this board, a few strong personal mentors, the MC, and I am thinking about calling a real DB Coach. But W has just the MC and her sister....and even then she has not shared all of the info....I am the one who has seemed to tell MC more about the EA....not W.

DMB

[doing my best]

I have reflected on joint MC session. One of my personal mentors has said to me this is like a greyhound race. She is the rabbit and I am the dog. No matter what happens, the dog NEVER catches the rabbit. It will always be set to go faster than the fastest dog. Point being the situation at home has changed. We are not in a destructive relationship and even the kids have noticed my changes. So what the heck is still going on???

I have thought long and hard about W’s “Love Shack” notes. What came out in the MC session was that those notes were written THIS PAST WEEKEND. 10 weeks after bomb….8 weeks after communication had been cut-off. So….what the heck is going on here. If I sit back and look at this again, this is what I see. Would appreciate any input from you folks who have seen this a thousand times….but specifically looking for input on fantasy goal setting and if this is what I think it is.

To refresh from an above posting….

SECRET LOVE NOTE EXPOSED due to INTEL

Sunday night at the beach I saw love note and fantasy plan with OM. It was an actual plan that she drew up with a fantasy life of her and old BF. It actually had a house described, curtains, paint, fireplace. She wrote that "We will call it our Love Shack". She also wrote about her having a Mustang convertible and then some stuff regarding Maui.....digitizing some photos to send to each other, and a place in Kentucky called Rough River. Also listed was "OM = income. Me = $XXX per year". It looked like a plan for eventual escape for the both of them.

Told wife I saw notes. W at first looked at me like she had no idea what I was talking about. Then I got more descriptive. She said "Oh....those are old notes from early on". She says that it is not any plan and is her way of trying to "purge her feelings" and release old BF. W says she just writes what is on her mind and does a lot of doodling. She says she was writing down the life that they had talked about many years ago. However, for her to list his income and her income potential is odd to me.

So here is my revised thoughts....

I believe that W's love shack note is actually a brainstorming goal sheet of what life could be like in 10 years after his kids and our kids are out of the house. I have seen this before in other of her life plans for us and the family over our 22 years together. That is why it looked so familiar to me. The other 2 keys for this are the fact she listed her potential salary. That salary was VERY specific....$XXX,000. Sounds high but in 5 - 10 years that is the potential of being a certified professional in her field (currently W is working PT and makes enough to support mortgage and some personal spending money). Secondly W wrote about digitizing her and old BF's pictures into a photo of Maui....which was to be their ultimate honeymoon.

I know for a fact W likes to set goals and then do everything to move towards them. That has always been her MO. I did some searching on affair fantasy projection and goal setting....and came up with this article below. Might be helpful for folks on Board to read. It fits in some scary ways.

***************

Is a Mid Life Crisis an illness?

I've lost count of the number of times I've heard someone affected by their MLC say "I'm so glad I now realize I'm not alone, I thought that I was going crazy", when what they should be saying is "I'm so glad that I now realize that I am not
the only one going crazy".

I think that people going through a MLC can often exhibit symptoms typical of extreme grief including anger, denial and depression. These can be serious mental issues.

In fact, where most causes of grief like death, loss of a job, failure of a business or illness can be pinpointed, a MLC almost creeps up without notice leaving the victim just 'feeling' the way they feel often without an easily identifiable cause.

Although I am not a psychologist by any stretch of the imagination, I think that it doesn't take a degree to see how The Kubler-Ross Grief Cycle applies to someone going through a MLC. In particular those in a MLC do not seem to be able
to get out of the 'Sticking and Cycling' phase:

Getting stuck

A common problem with the above cycle is that people get stuck in one phase. Thus a person may become stuck in denial, never moving on from the position of not accepting the inevitable future. When it happens, they still keep on denying it, such as the person who has lost their job still going into the city only to sit on a park bench all day.

Going in cycles

Another trap is that when a person moves on to the next phase, they have not completed an earlier phase and so move backwards in cyclic loops that repeat previous emotion and actions. Thus, for example, a person that finds bargaining not to be working, may go back into anger or denial.

We often dismiss a MLC as something trivial and sometime it indeed is. If you just end up buying a flash car or take up bungee jumping or hand-gliding then there's no harm done(hopefully). Once a spouse seriously contemplates a physical
or emotional affair or a breakaway without formally informing their other half, then the MLC has moved into dangerous territory. Fail to recognize the potential
threat that a MLC combined with an affair can pose and you can easily turn your
life and the life of the one you love upside down.

In an attempt to deal with their feelings and especially if they are also in the
midst of an affair, someone going through a MLC will use the following
mechanisms to cope:

Fantasy: imagining that a life other than the one they already live will
definitely be much better.

Idealization: only seeing the good points in the other person they are having an affair with

Projection: people going through a MLC while distancing themselves from their spouse, often claim that their spouse has little in common with them

Provocation: someone going through a MLC may try to provoke their spouse into a reaction that gives them justification to leave

Substitution: Without being able to clearly identify the actual reason why they
are feeling the way they are, they will blame other factors such as a loss of
freedom, or missed career opportunities, the marriage itself, or 'falling out of
love'. These are more often symptoms, not the cause.

By far the worst factor I can think of is denial, because often denial of denial
follows, and when that happens, the victim is unable to see themselves using any of the above coping mechanisms. They will deny all responsibility for their actions, make decisions based on 'feelings' and come up with a justification for everything they do. Once this stage is reached then it is near impossible to turn things around.

I've seen an extreme case of denial where a woman divorced her loving and heartbroken husband of 18 years and 3 children for another man. The new relationship turned into an abusive one. Despite being regularly beaten and the
involvement of the police she is unable to leave him and still claims that she
made the right decision when she left her ex as she now has her freedom. It is
one of the most extreme cases of denial that I have seen.

As with any illness, early detection is the key and followed by open
communication between spouses.

[doing my best]

LATEST UPDATE....WENT TO SEE MC BY MYSELF TODAY.

Called her at the last minute and wanted to get her take on what the heck is happeneing. MC says W is not trying. No movement. Just there. I ask if she has seen this before? MC says yes....only when another person is in the picture.

So now I have to finally believe that W and old BF are still talking to each other.

DMB

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Now why didn't I think of that??

[doing my best]

Wisdom from my brother-in-law....it somehow fits with everyone's advice and DBing....

The less words the better, the less explanation the better. Actions are much less open to interpretation than words are. Throw a word out there and the listeners mind can go crazy with thoughts about what it means. Actions and behaviors are more direct and observable.

To throw out a little Zen. The finger points at the moon. It's a reminder that the finger is not the moon, just a pointer. Words are often just a pointer, they are descriptive, they lead the listener, but they can never be the moon, they can only go so far. Whereas actions more resemble the actual moon itself and feel more concrete to whoever is watching.

Summarizes "graceful actions" or doing without trying.