The reason I want to ask her what she thinks no contact means, is to get her into a civil conversation.
. . .
If we can't have a discussion about it, then what's the point? If she can't respect me to have a civil conversation about this very serious topic, then I'm wasting my time. Does that make sense?
Yes, I certainly understand your frustration, and your feeling that way. I felt the exact same way. I am, by trade, a TALKER and a WORDSMITH, and I have enormous faith in the power of my own words -- too much so, sometimes.
Here's the thing though, e -- from my personal archives:
Types of Convos
Exactly. Here's the thing: if someone is in an ongoing, unrepentant affair, there are only a few types of conversations/communications they can have with their betrayed spouse, and ALL of them are cheeseless tunnels for the BS:
2) Seemingly POSITIVE ones. So long as they are still in contact with OM/OW and lying to their spouse about it, these are all "bullchit spin" at best, and outright GASLIGHTING and LIES at worse. And the problem is, the betrayed spouse inevitably sees this as "baby steps!" and true marital progress, when they are no such thing. They can lead to horrible strategic and tactical mistakes, esp. if the BS doesn't have a good intel system in place. Reading my old journal yesterday, I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.
3) LEGAL/FINANCIAL ones. These are best handled by your attorney, for the obvious reasons. If you start negotiating yourself, when you are way, way, WAY too emotionally entrenched in the situation (and also often running on too-little sleep and WAY too-little emotional needs of your own being met), YOU WILL MAKE FOOLISH MISTAKES and UNWISE CONCESSIONS.
4) FAMILY/LOGISTICAL ones. These are fine, but best handled via e-mail or text message. A cheating spouse will use these as a ploy to lure you into R convos and worse; SEE #1 ABOVE.
5) SMALL-TALK. This is fine, but only in RESPONSE -- don't initiate it if your strategy is to go "dim" and if it's to go "dark" you shouldn't even respond. If it's "dim," then only respond to one of every several communications, and usually delayed, because you're BUSY and GETTING A LIFE, remember?
I'm going to read, and re-read these posts. So much information.
Would a written letter or email about no contact be good? It's something tangible that she can read over and over again. Or would that come off as spineless and weak? Idk, have a lot of studying to do!
M 32 WAW 34 D - 5 S - 4 PA 1/09 Moved out 3/09 She filed 5/09 90 Day Postponement 11/09 State Dismissed case 4/10 Moved home 9/10
It's starting to come together. I don't like my email idea, I'll go with print offs from the professionals.
Do you know if any of the professionals have a list of things that are contact? I really believe that she thinks she hasn't been making contact, especially when it comes to his family.
M 32 WAW 34 D - 5 S - 4 PA 1/09 Moved out 3/09 She filed 5/09 90 Day Postponement 11/09 State Dismissed case 4/10 Moved home 9/10
I'm going to read, and re-read these posts. So much information.
Would a written letter or email about no contact be good? It's something tangible that she can read over and over again. Or would that come off as spineless and weak? Idk, have a lot of studying to do!
E-mails are weak.
Best to say in-person, and then FOLLOW UP with an e-mail, confirming what was said.
EJohn... the reason she's bypassing your no contact isn't because she doens't understand the meaning.. It's beacuse there are no consequences for her ignoring it.
Why would an addict NOT DRINK if there are no consequences for THEM when they pick up that bottle?
Education is important but you need to back it up or its worthless.
Well, that didn't go well. She got very angry, said that I would only be happy if she lived in a cage. We talked, I did my best to say it was for our family. I think I screwed up by telling her that if the pics aren't removed by the end of the day, that it is over. She said "Sound's like a plan" I gave her the info but she refused to look at it. Such is life. I'll take a look tomorrow, and then call the lawyer. She probably has already, but I'm actually not freaking out or breaking down.
Actually, I think I'll go dark for a few weeks and see if she files. Let her pay the fee.
M 32 WAW 34 D - 5 S - 4 PA 1/09 Moved out 3/09 She filed 5/09 90 Day Postponement 11/09 State Dismissed case 4/10 Moved home 9/10
We are currently living in separate homes (she has the house, I'm in an apartment) with our own bills since Easter 2009.
All I said was that it was over, I didn't say I was going to file. The other week when we argued about her being at his family's pond, which she told me shouldn't be a problem "cause there's 100 acres in between them", she told me to file because she isn't going to.
I was paying her $205 a month per the temp court order, but I haven't given her a dime since the state dismissed the divorce.
The only consequence I can think of is going dark. It's funny, she didn't block me on facebook, so I can still see her profile pic which is my son at OM families pond. I gave her till the end of the day. If it's still there, then I'll block her, which will mean she won't have access to a lot of our kids pics, but that works against me too.
She knew his aunt and uncle before the affair, so she feels that it is okay for that contact.
M 32 WAW 34 D - 5 S - 4 PA 1/09 Moved out 3/09 She filed 5/09 90 Day Postponement 11/09 State Dismissed case 4/10 Moved home 9/10
Contact is defined as: • Physical contact œ being in the same p lace at the same time; • Verbal contact œ direct communication of any sort; • Indirect communication œ messages relayed through friends, family, coworkers, etc; • Indirect information œ information about the partner‘s actions, whereabouts, thoughts, or feelings relayed by friends, family, co workers, etc; • Personal information œ reading the partner ‘s mail, email, checking credit card or other financial information, driving past where s/he is staying, hiring a PI; • Obsessing and ranting about the partner; and • Any activity or habitual thought pattern that keeps the betrayed partner and the pain of the destructive activity in the forefront of his or her consciousness.
Note : I don't agree with bickering over the definition of contact, but I am offering this up anyways. In my opinion there will ALWAYS be disagreement between you and your wife on the definition of contact until you come up with some HARD CONSEQUENCES for her establishing contact.
