Not sure where to start, or end. WAW?

[john28]

Short of RUN, what would you suggest?

- Her go to IC? I am already going.
- Stop physical contact?
- Stop ILY?
- Continue on the 180? It seems like she's getting happier as I progress through this 180 - we're laughing and joking and smiling alot more
- She is going to NY in one week for a family reunion which has been planned for months, going to be gone a week. What should I do / act like when she is gone?
- Let things get better, then suggest IC? Or IC now?
- Demand cell phone records, all passwords for FB, email, chat?

[eeyore_no_more]

I try to stay hopeful, and I'm not telling you to run.

My concern is that it looks like the way she's acting now is the way she's acted for her entire life. The "normal life" you're holding on to and looking for may be the exception, and not the rule.

If this is the "real" her, can you accept her like this?

[john28]

You may be right, the "normal life" may be the exception. I'll concede that for now, but I feel like that sense of normality could be restored if proper communication was opened between us - which it truly never has been. I've known this since reading Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus recently.

If this is the "real" her, I'm not sure if I can accept this. I'm loyal to a fault. I always have been. I want to help her through this, and make sure she isn't broken again. I'm her H, I devoted my life to her 4.5 years ago when we were M. I owe her through sickness and health, regardless if this is the "real" her or the "broken" her. I think that's just my loyalty and love.

[PMA_Baby!]

Suma - This is a pro-marriage site. When I or someone says run we are not suggesting get a divorce. Or at least im not. I fought for 2 years for my marriage. What im suggesting is YOU need to take a serious look at your life and R and decide if you have what it takes to be with someone like this.

Anyway you spin it she has already betrayed your trust. You cant put your head in the sand about this. She needs to prove to you that she is worthy of your love. Not the other way around.

What I suggest is making a list of Boundaries and Consequences.

I would tell her that you are having serious issues with trusting her and that you need time to figure things out. I would tell her that in order for you to have any kind of future you both need to go to counseling to work on your self-esteem and communication skills.

If she is serious about your future together then she will agree if not then you have your answer. Once again. Some people were never taught what true COMMITMENT and HARD WORK is all about.

Good Luck. PMA

[eeyore_no_more]

I know you want to help, but it's not your responsibility to fix her. Only she can do that.

DB'ing is about taking care of you, so you will be okay no matter what happens.

You can stand for your M and try to be the best husband, father and partner you can be, and you can shine a light on the path so she can find her way home, but it's up to her to do the work needed to fix herself.

[john28]

quick update:

Went home at lunch. Stated that I wanted to talk about a list of things I've come up with after much thinking.

Her response:

1. Transparency - she said she already enabled history on her computer and gave me her email password, what else do I want? I said phone records, FB pwd, etc. She said that she doesn't want to feel like I'm her father checking up on her all the time, and doesn't want to live in a relationship like that. She adamantly reinforced that NOTHING is going on with OM. She hasn't left the house in days (i know this for a fact) and hasn't talked to any OM.

2. IC - she agreed to go, but money is an issue. We're already paying for MC, and i goto IC. I asked if money was not an issue would she go, and she said she would. I may have to seek other avenues of money for this, maybe my parents

3. MC, or change in MC - she is open to keep going, and change MC if we need to. I think the MC we have isn't really that great, she couldn't remember my W name on the 2nd visit, and she really doesn't give us "homework" other than "be nice to each other, treat each other like coworkers, and live day to day until i see you next". We've been in 3 sessions with that MC.


When leaving to go back to work she said, "Stop worrying about me. I'm not doing anything. I'm just here raising our child, I'm not doing anything anymore." I responded with, "Then I should just focus on us?", and she said, "Yes". Gave me a huge hug and the biggest kiss she's given me in weeks. I scooped her up like a knight in shining armor, carried her to the bed, laid her down playfully (all the while we were laughing) and planted a good kiss on her, and she responded well. Well, let's see how this afternoon goes - she was in a good mood when I left.

[john28]

You can stand for your M and try to be the best husband, father and partner you can be, and you can shine a light on the path so she can find her way home, but it's up to her to do the work needed to fix herself.

I agree. It reminds me of a very important quote that I wrote to her shortly after the bomb in a letter from the book, The Road

Is the fire real? The fire?
Yes it is.
Where is it? I don't know where it is.
Yes you do. It's inside you. It always was there. I can see it.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Also, I'm going to go out on a limb here, but has she ever threatened to kill herself? She seems to thrive on attention, and nothing says "rescue me" like vague threats about hurting herself.

She has threatened to hurt herself, but that was years ago, maybe 3 years ago. Nothing since then.

DAMN, Eeyore -- you're good!!

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Suma - This is a pro-marriage site. When I or someone says run we are not suggesting get a divorce. Or at least im not. I fought for 2 years for my marriage. What im suggesting is YOU need to take a serious look at your life and R and decide if you have what it takes to be with someone like this.

Anyway you spin it she has already betrayed your trust. You cant put your head in the sand about this. She needs to prove to you that she is worthy of your love. Not the other way around.

What I suggest is making a list of Boundaries and Consequences.

I would tell her that you are having serious issues with trusting her and that you need time to figure things out. I would tell her that in order for you to have any kind of future you both need to go to counseling to work on your self-esteem and communication skills.

If she is serious about your future together then she will agree if not then you have your answer. Once again. Some people were never taught what true COMMITMENT and HARD WORK is all about.

Good Luck. PMA

This. ^

And part of that list should be complete transparency. If she won't agree to that, then you have your answer.

Puppy

[Puppy Dog Tails]

quick update:

Went home at lunch. Stated that I wanted to talk about a list of things I've come up with after much thinking.

Her response:

1. Transparency - she said she already enabled history on her computer and gave me her email password, what else do I want? I said phone records, FB pwd, etc. She said that she doesn't want to feel like I'm her father checking up on her all the time, and doesn't want to live in a relationship like that. She adamantly reinforced that NOTHING is going on with OM. She hasn't left the house in days (i know this for a fact) and hasn't talked to any OM.

Look, Suma, this is either really a dealbreaker for you -- a Boundary of Personal Integrity -- or it's not. If it IS, then you need to insist on it. If it's NOT, then you shouldn't have brought it up.

Now, if there IS anything inappropriate going on with, say, her FB e-mails, she's just going to wipe them clean as soon as you're gone.

She said that she doesn't want to feel like I'm her father checking up on her all the time, and doesn't want to live in a relationship like that.

A: "I understand. I wouldn't want to either. Unfortunately, since you are the one who has had multiple affairs, I have decided that this is something that I need in order to protect myself, and know that you're sincere in trying to work on our marriage, without the influence of a third person. If you don't want to, I'll have no other choice than to assume you either ARE still carrying on with someone, or, you at least want to keep the door open so that you CAN. Either way, I'll have my answer."

And then I'd give her 5 minutes to decide, without letting her out of my sight.

Tough stuff, I know. Serial infidelity always is.

Puppy