I've been lurking here for weeks and I think I've read some great advice on a lot of different situations. At this point I think it's time to talk about mine and see if there is any help to be had.
We've been M for 4.5 years. T for 6. Shortly after 1 year anniversary (dating) we became found out we were having a S - we were both in college, Me-23, W-19. We got M, moved to NY with MIL and lived there till S was born. After S was born we moved to GA and that is where things starting going south (literally).
W has always been a SAHM.
About 1 yr after M she was a full blown EA with OM that was about 1000 miles away, over the internet. Phone calls, chatting, emailing, pictures sent (yeah...), etc. Went on for about a month or so. Exposed the EA and she stopped. Apologized profusely. She attributed it to only being 20, having a brand new baby, being in a town 800 miles away from any of her family, she was lonely, etc. Basic self-asteem issues. I forgave her and we tried to move on, but after about 2 months of that it happened again with the same OM. Exposed (again) and she quit for good.
Moved again to NC after about 1.5 yrs of M. Been here for the last 3. The move here was great - we started getting along awesome, she made a small group of friends, got involved with a book club, and was more happy. After 2 years of living in an apartment, we bought a house together. A lot of planning went into that and she was very excited - in her mind she said "this seals the deal on our M, we're good to go now".
This last January she started taking a class at a local community college to start back towards some career, even though she doesn't know what she wants to do with her life. She's been a SAHM for 4 years now, and at our agreement she would be going back to work/school full time when our S is in school. Classes were going very well! She was really happy, we both had busy schedules and were sharing responsibility of taking care of our S at night while she was at class or studying. We spent a lot of time together and things were really good - or so I thought....
Late April 2010 we had a blow up. We routinely have these about every 6 months. She said she isn't happy with me, thinks our M was a mistake, we were too young... but at the end of it, we committed to each other because we were both still in love w/ each other.
May 27, 2010, I exposed an EA. Going on for approximately 6 weeks. She had met this OM at community college, he was 21 years old. I asked her over and over what is going on, and to this day she claims that she "was just unhappy in the M and needed someone to talk to". There was never PA or anything close - and I honestly beleive it. I asked her adamantly had she ever introduced our S to this person, or brought him into our home. She sweared no. I have a feeling that this OM was there "listening" to her and giving her courage to leave or something of the like. Pretty typical? She sweared to cut off all contact with OM and move forward with me.
Father's Day she dropped the bomb. Wanted a D. In her words she has shut down, and doesn't want to work on the M anymore. She said that she's not attracted to me anymore, but that she still loves me (is this similar to ILYBINILWY?) She says the following as the reasons for her getting there:
- I was never around .... and I will admit that I was out with my friends on the golf course about 2-3 times a week since April. She never told me not to go, but to enjoy my time with them. I thought everything was fine! - I never helped out around the house .... I'll agree with her. I wasn't as helpful with the daily tasks as I should have been. - She felt pressured to ML .... I think this might have always been the case in our M. She has never had a drive to ML. There is alot of history behind that which I won't go into. - She's not attracted to me anymore - We fight every 6 months about the same thing
I immidiately suggested MC. She said no at first, but after a few days said OK - but I'm only going for you, not for me. That was good enough for me. MC at first was terrible, we only blamed each other and got angry, she just kept saying "I don't want to be with you, I don't want to be in the same house, I want to move out with my Aunt". Her aunt lives 15 miles away.
After 3 sessions I picked up DB. I read it thorougly. I had been making all the usual mistakes - begging, pleading, reasoning, crying, logic. I tried to stop that immidiately. Three days before our last counseling session about 10 days ago, I flipped the "happy" switch on. I started being super happy. Things were good for a Friday and Saturday. Then on Sunday I made the mistake of testing the temperature and things blew up. She said none of her feelings had changed. Nothing. She still didn't want to be with me. This fueled alot of other things, about how she wants to see a L and get a legal S from me, which I refused. We then launched into financials, custody, etc discussion and brought out the legal pad to write things down.
She was shocked when I pulled out a spreadsheet with all the financial information on it - as if I had prepared this beforehand. I let her know that she would be taking on half of our debt. She has never worked, doesn't have a degree, no future possibility of a job. I have worked my a$$ off for the last 5 years to excel in my career and provide a home, cars, luxuries, etc. We've done pretty well. But when she found out she would have to take 1/2 the debt she FREAKED out. Uncontrollable crying, accussing me of manipulation, and in her words "No judge in their right mind is going to give me half the debt". This really scared her.
For the last 10 days I've been trying to put on the "happy" face and pull a 180, but sometimes not entirely successful. I'm a touch LL person, and she is an Acts of Service and Quality Time LL person. Sometimes I know that I push her for touch, and she lets me know. It's so very tough. Still in same bed, same house. At night I cuddle up with her because I feel like that is the only time during the day I have any sense of love with my W. I feel so alone in my M - it is so very painful right now.
I've asked her many times if she wants to work on this M. She says that she is TRYING on this M - but her definition of trying is staying in the house and not packing up and leaving today. She says she doesn't WANT to try, but she is trying. I've asked her why she is still staying and she says, "because I love you and respect you". I'm getting so many mixed signals - can someone please help?
Fast forward to today. This is the situation as is: - She says that she loves me. - We haven't had R talk in 10 days - At suggestion of the counselor, we're living "day-to-day" in the moment and it seems to make things happier around the house - I have a much much more stronger bond with my son. - We spend time together every single night, probably an hour or so playing board games or cards, not in front of the TV. - She says, "I know you are a good man. I just don't know if you're the right man for me."
This past Friday night I told her that I was going to drop our S off at a friends house to spend the night because I was going out to see a friend of mine play in a local band. I didn't invite her per se, I said "And you can come if you like". She didn't respond at first. Then a few hours later she said "I guess I'll go." (My thoughts being the alternative she would just sit at home alone all night). I made reservations at a very nice restaurant and we had a great time there. We went and saw the local band and during the show she had her arm around me and was very close to me - it felt very good. Admittedly she had 3-4 drinks that night, but I still felt like she was in control... it's like she just wanted to have a really good time with me that night. We got into the car and started driving home and she said in a giggling voice, "Whoah I'm feeling tipsy!" I then made a crucial mistake. I said "Well, then we better get you home quick!" as if to give an inuendo. She immidiately snapped and said "I'm not doing anything with you tonight." I kind of laughed it off and said "Cool! That's not a problem. I'm good with that. But out of curiousity why?" She then proceeded to tell me that she was trying to like me again and that if we had ML it would ruin everything. She also then told me that she doesn't feel any different than before about me. Ugh.
I'm going to try and update this with progress and I hope for some direction. Please help me! I feel like I'm making crucial mistakes along the way. I don't want to lose my family to D!!! There has never been any physical abuse or substance abuse on either of our parts, she has slapped me about 10 times in our marriage, and called me some pretty wicked things, but I can count maybe 5 times I've ever yelled at her. I'm usually a pretty calm and collected person.
Immidiately, her birtday is this Saturday. I asked her what she wanted (before DB started) and she said that she just wanted a very nice dinner with me. I have plans to go and buy her a very nice dress to wear to dinner, then maybe a jazz club after (we're both musicians), and I got her a card and some 2-3 small things like a book light, some gardening stuff, etc. What should I try / not try to do on her birthday? How should I act?
I'm not sure what to do anymore. I can't tell if I need to LRT or just 180. Yesterday she initiated a hug when I got home. Last night we were playing cards on the back porch and a roach came by and I killed it with a flyswatter. She thanked me profusely and I said, "Is that worth anything to you?" and looked down at her. She immidiately pucked her lips up as if to give me a kiss, and we did - just a short little peck and I didn't want to go in for the deep one. Later (thankfully!) another roach came by and I got that one too (roach & kiss).
I'm just getting so many mixed signals. She says she loves me. She says she doesn't want to be with me. She says she is trying. She says she wants to leave. UGH!!! ROLLERCOASTER!!! HELP!!!
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
I also wanted to add that a conversation that we've had on that last Friday date included her saying things like:
I never want to be with anyone ever again. I just want to be alone forever. I don't want to be with anyone because I never want to let them do this to me again. I don't trust this "new" you to stick around, and even if the "new" you did stick around I still don't think I'd want to be with you.
She has re-started her med for depression and this has helped a little. I just wanted to give a little more insight.
I've also started taking med for ADD, which I've never really treated since I was an adult. As I'm sure you know, a person with ADD forgets the smallest of tasks and duties. This was a big problem in our M - like I couldn't remember to take out the trash, or fix something, or do this or that - it never occured to me to start. After getting on med, it has helped TREMENDOUSLY. I remember to make my wife coffee before she wakes up every morning. I take the trash out all the time. I do the dishes when she's not looking. I've not forgotten to do the littlest thing! I can see she appreciates this, but I don't know how deep is goes...
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
I've started a new routine in the morning. Our son wakes up before us so we let go and let him watch a 30 minute show while I shower and get ready for work. After that I make him breakfast every morning and then go wake up my W. She's always been a late sleeper and doesn't necessarily get up out of bed (maybe 1/5 times) when I'm leaving. Right before I said goodbye she said, "You look nice today" with a complement. I said thanks very much, and told her goodbye and to have a good day. Normally she would give me a hug and kiss, but I just walked out of the room. I felt devasted. I said goodbye to my son but forgot my phone in my room, so I had to go back. I went back in and she was laying there awake. I told her I forgot my phone, and then I gave in. I looked at her for a while, as if to say "Aren't you going to give me a hug?" After about 3-4 seconds she moved her arm to give me a hug. I gave her one, told her that I loved her and left. She said I love you back.
I'm not sure if that is wrong. Last night she gave me a kiss, but no hug this morning? Was I wrong to possibly pressure her into a hug? Am I at the point i should be using no contact physically - no ILY?
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
Never even made it thru your whole post, but serial infidelity? At least 3x by the time I stopped reading? And now she wants to blame this on you going golfing too much?
Sorry ... SEE ya. Cut her loose. The recidivism rate for serial adulterers is damned near 100%. She has a serious character flaw, and until SHE gets some professional help and owns up to it, you're going to have nothing but heartache with this woman.
I also wanted to add that a conversation that we've had on that last Friday date included her saying things like:
I never want to be with anyone ever again. I just want to be alone forever. I don't want to be with anyone because I never want to let them do this to me again. I don't trust this "new" you to stick around, and even if the "new" you did stick around I still don't think I'd want to be with you.
So she cheats on YOU multiple times, and she doesn't trust YOU.
Priceless.
Puppy
btw, huge red flags, right here:
Quote:
I never want to be with anyone ever again. I just want to be alone forever. I don't want to be with anyone because I never want to let them do this to me again.
that is CLASSIC INFIDELITY SCRIPT for "there's someone else."
Please help me! I feel like I'm making crucial mistakes along the way. I don't want to lose my family to D!!! There has never been any physical abuse or substance abuse on either of our parts, she has slapped me about 10 times in our marriage,
Um, dude: that's physical abuse.
Seriously, I don't know who needs more help -- your wife, with her abuse and her serial infidelity, or you, for your obvious self-esteem issues that you would not only TOLERATE all of this, but needily go ask her for HUGS???
Instead of MCing, I'd suggest you each get a good IC right now, if you can afford it. Maybe if you can each get yourself healthy, you can work on your marriage down the road.
I agree. Chances are she's still messing around w the guy from comm. college. She is acting really immature. Since you guys were married really young she must still feel like she needs to sow her oats plus her extreme low self esteem is a dangerous combo.
Sounds like you will really have to let her go so she can figure her own stuff out. Unfortunately this might mean your feelings changing in the long run.
Sorry you're here. You're in good company. The vets should be around in a little while.
Your sitch sounds a lot like mine (and quite a few others on this board...). Your W is following the same WAW script.
Prior to the ILYBINILWY bomb, did she have a life outside of your home?
My SAHM WAW suffered from depression, too, and didn't do much for herself while she was taking care of our kids. She started to resent me because I spent all day in an office talking to grown-ups, and when I got home, I didn't do enough to make sure she had time for herself and emotional support.
When someone else came along who listened to her and gave her attention, my W had an EA/PA, and convinced herself that our love wasn't real because she had "in love" feelings for OM that were stronger than the mature, nose-wiping, diaper-changing, cuddling in bed every night love we had.
Once I got the bomb, my W gave the same responses, almost word for word, about wanting to live alone, never loving again and not trusting my changes.
I'd expect that the OM from her school is still in the picture.
Can you gather intel, like cell phone records or computer browsing history to verify?
Also, after her EA three years ago, what kind of transparency plan was put into place so you could trust her again?
Good luck. No matter what happens, you are going to be okay.
Never even made it thru your whole post, but serial infidelity? At least 3x by the time I stopped reading? And now she wants to blame this on you going golfing too much?
Sorry ... SEE ya. Cut her loose. The recidivism rate for serial adulterers is damned near 100%. She has a serious character flaw, and until SHE gets some professional help and owns up to it, you're going to have nothing but heartache with this woman.
Puppy
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I was absent. I wasn't a good father (not because she told me, because I know it). I wasn't supportive enough for my family and picked myself over them many times, both monetarily and attention wise. I think that changes the situation on why she would seek outside "approval"
----"Et tu, Brute?"---- me:28 W:24 S4 T:6 M:4 EA Exposed: 5/21/10 Bomb: 6/20/10 (Father's Day) NC w/ OM: 7/10/10 W moved out 8/21/10 http://bit.ly/aOrZne - My sitch
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I was absent. I wasn't a good father (not because she told me, because I know it). I wasn't supportive enough for my family and picked myself over them many times, both monetarily and attention wise. I think that changes the situation on why she would seek outside "approval"
No matter how she tries to hang all of the blame for this on you, or you try to take all of this on yourself looking for ways you might have caused this, YOU didn't cheat.
You worked so she could stay at home with your child. You should support your partner, but you shouldn't have to apologize for doing things for yourself, like playing golf. If she had done things for herself, too, she might not have felt so disconnected from you and vulnerable to predators like OM. (Come on, who makes a move on a married woman with a child...)
