In april wife decided she wanted a divorce, wasn't happy and wanted to leave in November when our lease was up. I listened and agreed with most of her complaints. Bought DR read it and immediately started the 180"s that I really needed to address in my life. Ironically we were in the process of trying to have a kid before this hit and I was really questioning a lot of my previous actions and attitude before the bomb, Due to me starting to realize I didnt want my future kid to act how I was currently acting.
My 180's were highly noticed and appreciated by her, But every time we would really have fun and enjoy each others company she'd clam up find something to be upset about and it would start the new argument of "Its to late" and she had her mind made up. My 180's were complete opposites of how I had been literally, which I did for me. I started talking about my day, life. I cooked for her again, talked her into working out and started treating her how I wanted to be treated(asking if she needed a blanket if she needed a drink etc.(she always wanted this and I finally gave it to her)). Before I was if you want it or think you might ask me I'll get it but she wanted me to always ask.
At this time I started to GAL I was going out anywhere just to kill time get away from the house and t.v., comp., I was attempting to include her when she wanted to go but mainly I did it for my well being.
Sadly the 180s I were working on were doing their job and really good I might add. However the things I wasn't working on, were driving her insane and making all my progress go straight down the drain(because at the time I didn't realize those issues).
The Friday before fathers day she left to go to her mothers again for the weekend. Due to a highly avoidable argument where she didn't ask a question and where I just didn't tell her what I was doing(she was testing me I was testing her we both failed. When she came back Sunday night I tell you She seemed so changed so happy to be their and just back to her old self. She started talking about what I wanted while she was their what was I trying to do etc. Conversation was going good we were talking about what things we didnt like with each other ways to improve them where we went wrong etc. Then I noticed, man I had to notice, she wasn't wearing her ring. Well I got floored, But before she could tell, I asked her what happened to it and why. The answer was "You dont want me to fake anything and be open" so I took it off. Well a few minutes after hearing this I told her if you dont want to be with me or around me the pack your [censored] and leave. I got the well I dont have any where to go. At this point were yelling but I drove my point to her, if you cant wear it to honor our commitment of trust, loyalty, friendship even if you dont love me leave, which she did. She had planned on moving into her mothers in November and commute to work from their, happens to be a 90m drive.
Now we've talked since then and quite friendly as well I have wrote her a letter explaining why I had asked her to leave and that I couldn't deal with her not wearing it and even if she did she'd feel like I was trying to control her which I dont want her to feel. But she's also the type of person who if you dont talk to, she thinks your mad at her . I want to somehow save my marriage but at this point I'm so lost as what I really should be doing to help get my marriage/friendship back on track. I know that their really is no PA no matter how much I've tried to think otherwise she's not that type of person and yes I had access to everything at one point and even now if I wanted(obviously she might have changed a few passwords but unlikely) and the only EA is with her mom and an ex co-worker who is female and 60+. So time isn't an issue nor is another man. I just dont know if going dark would be viable. Countinue the friendly talks about our days and cats, bills etc.
Any input, advice, questions would be greatly appreciated
[quote=Joeli] I know that their really is no PA no matter how much I've tried to think otherwise she's not that type of person and yes I had access to everything at one point and even now if I wanted(obviously she might have changed a few passwords but unlikely) and the only EA is with her mom and an ex co-worker who is female and 60+. So time isn't an issue nor is another man. [/quote
I would strongly advise you re-check. Things (and people) change. If she's changed her passwords, then that will be a huge red flag.
I'm curious; why did you feel the need to apologize to her about challenging her about her wedding rings? Do you REALLY think you were in the wrong, or is your comment about her "getting mad" the telling one? Do you often do (or not do) things just so your wife "doesn't get mad"???
I suspect she wants you to be stronger. Women don't find it very attractive when a man backs down all the time. They dont' want an ASS, but they do want someone who will stick up for themselves when they feel strongly about something.
I know about the red flags I've done the snooping keylogger even hacked the phone. We were also always together so not any time. Really me being stronger was an issue because I normally was too strong part of my 180 was being more gentle and compassionate.
The Friday before fathers day she left to go to her mothers again for the weekend.
Her mothers AGAIN for the weekend???????
There is your red flag and your clue to there being another man... Textbook. It always works too. Betrayed men always fall for the "she only went to her mothers for the whole weekend AGAIN routine"... and I bet you really believe that and will defend her...
It also disproves your comment about you "always being together".... a whole weekend away from you is NOT always being together.
Really me being stronger was an issue because I normally was too strong part of my 180 was being more gentle and compassionate.
You are like most men in your situation. You have confused "too strong" with being the right kind of "strong" to a woman..
I know quite a few very strong men who are also gentle and compassionate.. They are not exclusive of each other. Too strong is more than likely "bull headed and inflexible, argumentative and always mad or unhappy with her or something she did or said.".. that isn't what "strong" should be for a man.
Too strong is more than likely "bull headed and inflexible, argumentative and always mad or unhappy with her or something she did or said.".. that isn't what "strong" should be for a man.
Amen!
Can we add angry, bitter, cynical, and so on to the list of things that are not strong?
It's amazing the things we humans sometimes confuse with strength.
It is strong to be empathetic yet able to practice self-control, flexible yet principled, and open yet capable and willing to protect yourself.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
"If you want out honey, then maybe that is for the best. I can handle anything life brings before me. I am a big boy. I will be just fine." Then continue to make necessary changes while setting her free. Do the changes silently without bragging or bringing them up. Don't worry. They notice.. Set her free..
Women are ATTRACTED to men with EMOTIONAL STRENGTH... strength in times of stess. Strong when all around them is crumbling.. THAT is the strength she will respond to. For a good example go back and read ALL of Coach's threads and his journey..
"If you want out honey, then maybe that is for the best. I can handle anything life brings before me. I am a big boy. I will be just fine."
Women are ATTRACTED to men with EMOTIONAL STRENGTH... strength in times of stess. Strong when all around them is crumbling.. THAT is the strength she will respond to.
Can I get an 'Amen'? Seriously...that's good stuff!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Going to be a wall of text a lot to say and discuss but I had a lot of catching up to write down. And I will be writing shorter stuff in the future, hopefully.
sorry been busy as hell these past weeks looking for a second job and "GAL". In response to the posts I apologized for the ring incident because that was the 2nd time I ever "yelled" at her and I don't agree with yelling ever and the apology was for me and not her.
Sadly she was at her mothers, while she was packing her stuff that night she was on the phone with her mother who I ended up speaking with and while her mother was trying to convince me to allow her to stay if she wore the ring(wife was leaving anyway regardless because I yelled and she realized she really didnt have to stay their) she was also trying to accuse me of not trusting my wife because she was wearing it all weekend around them etc.(also banking transactions showed she rented the movies and bought stuff in her mothers neighborhood.(as well as conflicting with when my wife said it was taken off but irrelevant because it was taken off regardless))Wife knows I trust her and yup even told her mother to never accuse me of not trusting her because I never implied that. Passwords still work no weird emails no face-book crap, really I'm tired of snooping and ironically her emails activity has slowed down with her face-book stuff. I know possible new account etc. Only unlikely because of who she was, passwords various email accounts she just gets too confused and atm she doesn't have high-speed internet at her moms and that aggravates her to the point of no internet interest. As for her beautiful phone; gotta love being on the same plan, lol her longest time using it is calling me, numbers she's called are all numbers I know(family and yes her 60yr old female friend who I also know) and incoming the highest was 12m and I'm positive it was from her dad's(he's got a company phone he uses when receptions bad just I never needed to know the number).
to clarify "being always together" prior to my bomb we went everywhere together did everything "as one". Hindsight where the hell was our personal time. Post bomb she ran to her mothers for the Saturday, Sunday routine 2-3x. Sadly snooping revealed her face-book pages correlate with where she was cause of pics she had during those times with actual family members. I'm glad she's not involved atm just really sucks cause its an actual decision to leave to be on her own(I know currently at her mothers doesn't constitute on your own). I actually do respect it, because of all the time I actually have had to see what an ass I was at times and have realized I am nothing like how I use to be and along these years my fun side just got put somewhere on the back burner(not really self-pity as actual insight to myself I agree that I feel happier with how I am acting/living, yes I still miss my wife, she was my best friend and companion)
Now where I have been since then About July 1st had a weird convo with her because at that time she hadn't been willing to discuss how we were going to actually handle bills. I finally heard from her got it straightened out and then something I had already figured and planned but it came from her she really wasn't feeling comfortable just talking about anything in general and didn't know if she could remain friends with me at that time so our friendly talks and calls stopped strictly bill related talk since then. I'm not going to do the mind reading just because I feel sadly in my heart she's running(she actually said this one day "maybe I am running" in response to me calling her out on it, prior July 1st) and talking friendly just reminds her of the old good times(I feel if we got to the talking about anything/everything stage she'd have a major change of heart,(this is how we originally got together massive talks about everything, laughter, and just fun bs'ing). I also have found out that she was conflicted on emails/phone talks(snooping just reveals a lot)we had, she wasn't sure what I wanted Friends, wife/husband, or needy etc(I do feel a lot of stuff from her 2x divorced mother is being spoon-fed to her on how I am negatively going to react and my wife is either preparing or just assuming for those things). Now for the record through-out our marriage I was the strong one during tough times emotionally and at the same time I was also one not to show fear/worry about oh crap moments. I do feel now though It might have been a Lil too much cause I was always nonchalant about money, bills(monetary items mean little to me). Plus she really felt the way I asked her to do things or not do things was me treating her like a kid( I look back now see how things could have been said different or better but when she tried informing me of these things I never understood her and she could really never properly describe them to me(again snooping payed off in a way here)).
Now the issue I'm royally confused and pissed at is last Friday I found myself in the "er" due to a massive nose bleed(blood pressure was through the roof, Yes I run 2 miles a day and work out at the gym 2x a week been doing it for months, me and my wife loved running just happened to be a wtf moment in my life). After me being in their for several hours and no one really had an exact diagnosis except do a ct scan or something rather( medical stuff is in one ear and out the other to me) I was feeling really depressed, kinda scared not knowing whats going on I went to call the wife- no answer. After 30m I texted her said I was in the er had tried calling and just really wanted to talk to someone. Got a text immediately back saying why are u in the "er". I told her why I was their and just really didn't know who to talk to and that's why I had called(me actually informing her on stuff is a 180 as well, most times I don't go to doctors I deal with it naturally or keep it to myself and not share when im sick etc) She never responded when I did find out what was up and what was going to be done(stress,blood pressure and a prescription) I called no answer, left a message stating I was taking money from savings to pay a prescription.
The follow morning, well let me say this apparently that night she was in west palm beach at the pga resort(Yes I was pissed finding this out my first thoughts were I'm an ass she is cheating, no way in hell she had that money or it being company related) and I didn't find out till I had gotten home Saturday morning(3am) and wasn't tired and decided to look at my email(facebook notification with a pic of the welcome sign). She called me asking how I was paying for the prescription(She couldn't be this dumb, but i bought it anyways) I told her well I called you left a message about taking it out of savings(I honestly tell her whenever I buy something non personal i.e. gas, cat food, air filter(all 180's since I use to just spend and not tell her), my food and other junk i.e soda,water from gas stations I keep to myself). She informed me that She was running low on money and that their really wasn't money in savings for me to do that.
Ok now we split and her driving 180m a day is a killer on gas financially we can barely afford it without me having to "sacrifice" my luxuries, cable, internet out to eat once a week(idc all you can eat for 3.99 breakfast is appealing when I usually only eat once a day on the weekends) While I am currently making my agreed budget(she makes 2x as much as me and yes she actually is still helping me pay this rent while I pay everything else on my end, Lights, car, gas(home and car) cable(which I'm thinking of switching all these bills solely to my name because she asked, Thoughts, suggestions on this) I know that she should have a certain amount in her checking due to me knowing what she pays and how much she makes(before she left I told her if she wanted a divorce she'd have to do everything on her own from checking , filing, moving ,and she had opened an account with her name on it, I really agreed with this because she had witnessed her dad leave her mom financially screwed during their nightmare divorce and I wanted her to feel reassured that I wouldn't do that and if she felt like too protect herself have separate accounts I was for it). When I'm low she deposits a certain amount in to cover me till pay day. And me getting a second/third job has been my main priority so I could in essence relieve her of paying for my rent and be able to afford this on my own(Sadly I'm having issues getting a damn job at mcdonalds but I do know when the times right God will provide, but I am looking everywhere and not just sitting on my ass or having fun with friends, and while money really was never a brought up issue(amount wise) I kinda feel like it might have factored in a little so a better job would be a big plus) Also, I gave up my plumbing job to move down here for her job and never was able to get back into it and ended up in a warehouse making a lot less which I really never thought she realized how much I sacrificed to leave a job I loved to work at one that is just paying the bills and not fun(well not anymore it isnt).
Ok back on track She said she'd deposit money but I'd have to pay it back. I agreed and made a comment about well why are you broke you should have over x amount. She actually answered and said she was spending too much money on gas and still hadn't paid for the mortgage(house in ocala being rented to my brother in-law, another long damn story) and she didn't know what would be left till she got home. I played stupid and asked well where you at, aren't you at your mom's because I know I dont have the money to get this today without going into the savings , reply was no I wont be home till sunday and Im at the pga. Well I was actually enjoying this convo for all the wrong reasons( Relieved I had in a sense got my closure to why she left) so I said oh um you can afford that interesting, without hesitation she answered well I had to pay for the gas and tolls but mom had a convention and andy "her mothers boss" paid for the rooms. I was feeling good at that time due to the fact I finally felt over her thinking she was lying her ass off. conversation ended with me polity saying well I've never really asked anyone for help but last night(er) I was really needing someone to talk to but if all you can do is help me with money then help me by telling me how to get the prescription she informed me take it from savings and she'd do what she could I told her well if the only way you can help is financially then ok I appreciate that even though what I need from you is a friend and not money but please have a good day enjoy your vacation with your "mom"(ya I hinted at me not believing her)
almost done and really didn't expect it to be this much maybe i"m to informative(a 180 most of the time i'm discreet and not as thorough)
Sunday and Monday I've gotten several text's about job's she's found and places she's heard might be hiring. I did tell her I've been running around all over the damn sate looking for something worth doing and not having luck and maybe the bleed was a little bit due to stress(didn't tell her the diagnosis because honestly I was pissed at her not really caring enough to talk) and I even got a call from her without me asking her too(she will start texting a whole conversation, like I did with this post, about bills and when/how she's paying or asking how i'm doing it(side note me paying the bills and sending confirmation is something I feel is trust related for us due to her moms divorce and all even though I might be reading too much into it . I ask her to just call because by the time I read the text I get confused or really don't get what the hell she's implying, and it really doesn't work, she text's anyway(cheese-less tunnels I swear) however the call also included that she plans on coming down on Sunday to get more things, and yes were talking stupid things some sun tan lotion, some beach towels, possibly her ab circle(we have always exercised so this isn't surprising) hand lotion and she even said she had bought some for when she went to the pga(btw she did go with her mom and sadly snooping does reveal this, pics comments on hers and her mothers facebook page as well) I'm really confused at why she needs these petty items insight would be nice if anyone has any.
Last thing for now She also wanted to know if she could get the cats, while its possible the towels lotion etc are a cover to get the cats she actually asked my thoughts on her getting them because she misses them(as well as one cat which Is really mine slept on her every night) but she seemed amicable if I wanted to keep them "for now" I did tell her that I can't tell you no nor would I due to them being family for us both and she has every right to them as do I. I even said nothing is stopping her from coming to see them. Dilemma I don't mind her taking them and I don't want to seem like I'm trying to deprive her of them however, Me actually taking care of them is slightly a 180 because normally all I did was feed them. No grooming no excessive playing with them no getting up to flush their toilet(yes they don"t use kitty litter they use a toilet that normal people use and are picky, toilet has to be flushed and sprayed before they go #2) By me keeping them I feel I am demonstrating that I do actually care about them like kids(no this isn't fake I do love my bengal always have just didnt show it like I do now that I know I really might lose him, was a wake up call). And by being responsible enough to take care of them I'm demonstrating that I would be a better father than what she thought I might have been(I really thought at the time animals and people aren't the same but after a while I realized my way of thinking was wrong if I cant get up to flush a toilet would I get up to change a diaper?, wife had valid points like this which I agreed with and yes I was doing this months before the bomb because we were trying to have a kid ironically) But thoughts ideas are appreciated and highly welcomed along with 2x4.
Dude, seriously. You come across as very needy and supplicating, and she comes across (in your descriptions of her, and your interactions with her) as the "man" in the relationship -- leading, strong, confident.
Did the two of you reverse roles somewhere along the path? It's not uncommon, but you need to get that edge back if you have any hope of re-attracting her.
