Thankyou for your reply forward, yes from sons point of view I think you have hit the nail on the head, adolescent and yes he is still very hurt from his dad abandoning him, but he is more hurt that dad still insists on trying to force son to have some form of relationship with the woman that took dad from him. I also think ex is like an adolescent too and needs to grow up. well there has been no contact since sunday and i arent expecting any, suppose it will be another 2 and half years of none speaking between them, well I put my neck on the block to get them to speak this time last year, I wont be doing it again, maybe I did the wrong thing, but I have had no thanks or appreciation of ex, just the phone calls when he wanted to moan about or slate son off, and then last sunday back to the angry ex in that he was playing the blame game and everything was back to being my fault, well Im sorry I cannot live my life like that, I have things to look forward to and so as son, we will survive without ex, we have done okay in the last five years, life is too short to live walking on eggshells and trying to be the peacemaker, especially when there is no gratitude, so I will leave it be now, if son and ex contact each other and least it wont be down to me. xxxxx