Hi Jeannine, thanks for stopping by my thread. I've seen you around the BB and been very impressed with your wisdom...
Quote: Bear with me if you've already answered this, but does your H avoid conflict like it's the plague? Is he NORMALLY sensitive about hurting the feelings of people around him?
Yes, my H is an extreme conflict-avoider. He was brought up in a home where his mother would react very forcefully to opposition of any kind (once she 'tried' to strangle herself in front of her small children after some fight with her H) and he learned to avoid any conflict. He has especial difficulty confronting women.
He just shuts up and resents that person. He let his mother and his sister do whatever they want to, and boss him around without ever complaining. But he resented it deeply.
My SIL reacted in a completely oposite way: she fights nail and tooth. He does not confront her either.
One example only: When we moved to Texas we had known we were moving for over a year (I accepted the job in March 1994 and I was going to start in July of 1995). He looked for a job himself, we house hunted, we planned the move and hired the movers... his whole family knew we were leaving... but he did not tell his mother until literally 3 days before our plane left. He let her plan our life, look for a job for him and tell everybody that we were coming back to their hometown just to avoid telling her beforehand...
Of course in a way, that is exactly what he did to me with OW: he had told everybody in his family we had problems and were getting a divorce... but forgot to tell me... He had been afraid to confront me, in case I'd leave him and resented me deeply in the process.
That is why I thought it is a sign of progress when he tells me that he does not like something or does not want to do something... If he confronts me, he will not get resentful.
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
I understand this type of behavior fairly well as I am married to a conflict-avoider myself. My H also has issues with his mother.
Quote: He has especial difficulty confronting women.
Let me state the obvious here. OW is a woman. So how does H confront her about this employment issue? Think of the conflict soaked scenarios your H must have tossed around in his head while pondering over this issue of approaching her.
I'm very much in empathy with you. It's a sticky situation - but one in which I believe you have the upper hand.
I simply had to steal this, as a remainder to self. It is Sage's latest post, quoting our very wise Acorn...
Quote: I pulled this off of an old thread...it was something that Acorn wrote to me when I was really in a down cycle...struggling with trust and fear and a desire to control a situation that was beyond my control...
So many of us here on the boards know what it's like to be in the grip of FEAR and the belief that if we JUST KNEW what was going on with THEM (our spouse) than everything would be ok...but what we eventually come around to realizing (and it IS cyclic...and no matter how crappy you feel today...you will rebound...) is that it really matters what's up with US...not because they aren't important...but because we can't control them...(no, we really can't!) and all the energy we use up trying to control what we can't control is energy that we're stealing from ourselves...and what makes it even a bit worse is that while WE think the energy is being used for a positive (to make it BETTER, right?)...it feels like negative energy to them...I'm fairly certain in my sitch that there are times when I'm CONVINCED that h is ACTING in a particular way when it's very likely that he's REACTING to me instead....
I know I'm preaching to the choir... I'm reposting this as a reminder to myself...I'm loving the + cycle I'm in right now..so now's the time to get the "supports" in place just in case..
Quoting Acorn: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think I know how hard this is for you. My H's internet porn/phone sex habit destroyed the trust between us, and it was only when he left that I realized how I had never really managed to totally let go of that and trust him. I think that played a big role in the breakdown of our M. It scares me to see you stuck in the same kind of place I was for 7 years. It isn't good for your M, but more importantly, it isn't good for you.... So, if you don't mind, I'd like to talk about my sitch a bit, hoping it will help you...
Not trusting my H undermined my self-esteem, made me feel insecure and unsure of myself, and haunted me as I fell asleep, and every time there was some missing time.... It kept real intimacy from returning to our M. Unfortunately, I didn't find the resources to let the past go until the bomb. I was always waiting for him to prove me stupid for having trusted him again... To pull my world out from under me once again... Once the bomb fell, I got over it, I don't know how or why, but it is different now.
This makes me think that the trust issue was about me and my fears about being duped. There has been a real shift here with me about this. At the end of July, after things had been looking up, H got involved with another OW, lied flat out to me about it, asked for a D, and moved in with her a few weeks later. Now, the thing is, he had promised to be honest about what was going on with this stuff, I chose to trust that he would be honest, and then he lied again. But, my reaction was totally different. I was not devastated by his lies, I did not feel like a victim, I did not feel like I was stupid for having trusted him once again. It was my choice to trust him again. I did it for myself and for our M to have a chance. I recognized and accepted the risk. And, when he lied again, my reaction was something like "too bad that didn't pay off, but it was worth the risk..." This was huge for me, and so very different. Why? I think because I gave him trust without also putting my world in his hands. DBing helped me take responsibility for my own happiness, so maybe that is why I could do it.
I regret that I couldn't do it before, I think it could have made all the difference. You want your H to be your friend and lover, but these things won't come without trust. You might think you hide it well, I thought I did. But, maybe I didn't so well, and it certainly blocked me from taking the leaps necessary for the intimacy in the kind of R I wanted. I wanted to stay safe and have my H cross the intimacy divide alone to get to my side. I felt it was his responsibility to do all the work, that he owed it to me for causing the rift to begin with. So, think of a tightrope. I wanted H to cross the tightrope alone to get to my landing, and thought then we would be where we should be. But, true intimacy only comes when both people take the risk, walk toward each other on the tightrope, and help each other balance in the middle.
I so hope you can find a way to meet your H in the middle. I know you feel that you've done more than your share. I felt the same way. Again with the tightrope--I fooled myself into thinking I'd stepped out, but my lack of trust kept me firmly tethered to my landing.
OK, this is getting way too rambly. I'll just close by telling you what I wish I'd done... Rather than trying not to rock the boat and assuming time would be the solution, I wish I had said "H, I have to lay it on the line. This M is not what I want. I want a vibrant, healthy relationship with a man who is my best friend and lover. I believe that we can have that kind of R, but not until trust is restored. This will take work, it won't happen without work, and I don't want to stay in this M unless we commit to doing the work together. Get the damn "After the Affair" book (which we had gotten) out of the closet and lets work through it together. Let's read the stuff in DB on rebuilding trust after affairs, and discuss what works there for each of us. This is not something that can fall by the wayside. We need to reevaluate each month to make sure that we continue to make progress. I am scared to death to tell you all this, I am scared that you will leave me and think this M is not worth the work, I am scared that you will agree and then nothing will happen. My fear comes from my lack of trust. So, telling you all this is a big leap of faith for me. I am taking a big risk for myself, for you, and for our M. So, what do you say? Can you take the leap with me?"
OK, rambling again.... I guess the main point is that my fear and lack of trust got in the way of my even being honest about the lack of trust, and of insisting that I would only remain in an R in which the trust was rebuilt.
Whew. Sorry for the stream of consciousness thing... But I've been worried about you and this trust problem for some time... I hate to see you make the mistakes I made... I think it is time to tackle this trust thing head on, either make it happen or get out of the R. You deserve the kind of R that can only come with trust.
I've been following your thread, though I've not posted, and I see many similarities in our sitches. My H is still at home, says he loves me, doesn't want D, but I'm not sure that his A is over and he still goes to the gym where the OW is. But, the signs that were there during the A are not there, so I'm trying to believe that it is over. However, I'm having a tough time with trust.
I had read Acorn's words on Sage's thread. Very powerful, but so hard to do. She is right, though and that is what I want to do, but I've started feeling myself pulling away from H. I'd really like some advice from some of you who have been here longer than I and who have offered wise words to others here.
If you have a minute, will you please read my last post on my thread and offer any advice, 2x4 or otherwise? I'd really appreciate. I need help. Here's my thread:
Just journaling... I do not know what to think (in which case it is preferrable not to think at all )...
I spent a bad night yesterday... I could not sleep and cried in silence for a couple of hours (thanks God my H did not hear me). I was steeling myself to talk to my H in the morning about the visit with the CPA (supposed to be Wednesday), fully ready to listen calmly to more excuses and postponements and then tell him more or less what Acorn says in her letter she wishes she had told her H... a tall order, I know, but advice I am convinced is sound (at least for me).
Anyway, after we showered he actually brought up the subject himself!. He asked me to get some info from our CPA to take to his and that we'd schedule the appointment as soon as I had the documents. Took all the wind out of my sails! Not that I am complaining...
So I never brought up the subject. We went to work and he called me at 4 pm to tell me where he was and what time he expected to finish work. Then he called at 5-5:30 asking for help because he had had a flat (a puncture for those outside the US). I took him to the car shop and left him there to get the new tire... A little while ago he called again to say where he was and when he expected to be home...
Surprises and more surprises...
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Quote: "You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little" Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Think you needed to have someone post this in red! Soounds like your H is proving your worst fears about him are wrong! LOL I'd say, you have a great thing there with your H. There are a few of us here on the BB, that wish we are where you are at in your R. So sit and think, count your luckey stars. Your H loves you, it's very plain!
Deb
just thought I would point those things out to you, since you put those blinders back on. LOL
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