Near WAW with EA - almost textbook sich

[doing my best]

Well....I guess it is time to share my story. It is SOOO similar that this site has given me a lot of hope that perhaps I can turn this around. I have read so many siches and tried to garner advice which has really helped. Would probably still be in beggy/whinny/ILY mode had I not found DR and this site.

Married 18 years...together for 22. I am 46 she is 45. 3 Kids. I have not been a very good at showing my love. Not very much ILY over the years. Believe we had grown apart but thought that it was kids, family, careers, etc. I had also been very stressed....often over the past 2 or 3 years using angry outburst toward W and Kids. I love them dearly but put so much emotion in at work that when I came home...nothing left. A big part has been my ADD which was diagnosed 10 years ago. Started but stopped medication. Everything I read on Adult ADD points to a huge reason as to why my marriage went south....pre-occupied, no paying attention to emotions of wife, scattered, "the 4th kid" as she has now told me.

The day the bombs started dropping....yelled one more time about lights being left on. W says stop yelling I can't take it anymore. Tone was different so I approach her and ask if everything is OK. She begins to tell me about my angry outburst and that we need to go to counseling and that she did not know if I loved her anymore. Of course I assured her very sincerely and she says she had not heard me say that before. She says I have lost a spirit and should and that our marriage has lacked any passion. I agree with her because I knew things were not clicking. Anyway, it seemed positive....we went a few days and started talking. I started soul searching. She denied there was another. I write her a few letters. Agree to counseling. Start saying I love you more.

Week 2 - we start counseling. That day I check the phone records...OMG in 2 1/2 previous months....almost 3000 text messages and 40 hours of phone calls. Password was changed and deception uncovered. It was an EZ with old college boyfriend who had recently reconnected on FB. In counseling she agrees to break-off all contact. Send me an apology note saying she is sorry....to forgive her....and that she is committed to working on our relationship. Also adds in a "reintroduction” of who she is....what she likes...etc. I am hurt but do forgive her because I know I will need to. Should have waited because it took me several more weeks to really forgive. That night we try to be intimate and it somehow fades....I can't perform. Next day we talk and she says it felt awkward....I am like a son to her. First I have heard that. That is pretty much the last time she touched me. Also that week I begin medication for ADD. The affects are instant. I begin to work on my habits and things that have irritated her for years. She continually keeps saying that I need to work on myself and not on us. She says she is emotionally drained and cannot do anything but work on herself...wants to start a business, get in shape, etc. I agree but do not understand why not work on us also.

Weeks 3 to 5....I begin to soul search. find dr. Harley....DB, DR, Deepak Chopra, etc. I begin to work on myself and realize that must be done. But I cannot break out of the ILY, letters, talking about the past, etc. W is willing to still go out and spend time, willing to go on back porch and talk. We talk so much that she finally says enough. MC says to stop talking about past and start talking about present. We both agree and try to catch each other. She continues to say that she has no feelings for me. I ask her if she has any secrets to tell me know. She finally says that she thinks she still has feelings for old BF. She hopes she can lose them. Hopes she can find feelings back for me....but I cannot get her to say WANT...just hope. Can't control my emotions and anxiety. She looks at me at one point and tells me to relax she is not going anywhere. Has not set time limit and I need to stop trying so hard. I go back to Dr. and get low dose of Sertaline/Zoloft.

Week 6 - reading these posts and DR 3 times....I realize that I must move forward. Begin to craft strategy to work on myself...act as if and do 180. I have not yelled or done disrespectful comments since Bomb first dropped. We finally stop discussing past and try moving forward.

Week 7 and 8 - I come across notes W was making. She is still planning an exit. Feels no emotional connection to me. Things have gone from bad to worse. I am set back but at the beginning of this week #7 I finally hit her straight on with the talk of I am stepping back and trying to give her space. Let's just have fun. Spend time with the kids. Enjoy each day. She says thank-you. I tell her that I want to keep family together while we work on ourselves and issues. The next 2 weeks are hard on me but we have fun....go dancing, go out with friends, do things with kids. I think I can turn the corner here and apply DB for the next couple of weeks and months. Try hard to remind myself of patience and other hints here on site.

Week 9 - this weekend W and I talk. I do not bring anything up but somehow she launches into nothing has changed for her. She feels nothing towards me. Says that she has just been going with the flow and not really putting a lot of effort. I am devastated but keep very good composure (thanks to everyone here and what I have read)...tell her that I am moving forward with or without her. I have lost weight...I feel good and would love to share my life with her as I continue to work on myself BUT if she chooses, she can leave. Wow...takes conversation in new direction for next 2 days. She brings up idea of separation so she can find herself. I say if that is her choice but why not work on self here. I will give space and we can look for separation opportunities....weeks at family....or long weekends. But for some reason I think she wants to move out still but says not interested in Divorce.

This is where we are now. Our first joint MC is this week. Counselor says we are ready to meet together. I have seen baby steps in past 3 weeks since I stepped back and started full DB. However, she has hardly responded to me. So....I now suspect the EA is still going on...or she definitely still has feelings for him. She admits that she has continued moving further away from me....has negative emotions towards me that she wants to get over but does not know how....and cannot remember anything good in the last 18 years. Feels that it has been a nightmare she is now waking up from. She never told me how unhappy she was and was ALWAYS over the top with love and affection towards me which I freely admit I probably got used to and took advantage of.

More but all of it is WAW script. really unbeleivable.

Thanks!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

DMB,

btw, awesome screen name. A good friend of mine used to use the same one here, after starting with "Trying My Best" and then growing into it. Big sneakers to fill, but I'm biased.

You are in a chicken-and-the-egg situation, and your wife has it exactly backwards. Until your wife ends her affair with this other man, she's not GOING to have "those kinds of feelings" for you again -- that's just a chemical/physiological FACT. Do some research, and Google "love lust brain chemical addiction PEA" and see what you learn.

In my opinion, MCing is a waste of time when one of the spouses is having an affair. Even Retrouvaille won't take you for a weekend in those circumstances. Any good IC worth their salt will tell your wife that she owes it to HERSELF (nevermind you) to separate herself from any third-party emotional entanglements while she goes thru such major decision-making.

Puppy

[doing my best]

Thank you VERY much for replying. I am determined to be a success story and feel that I have laid some ground work. What prompted me to finally post is my reading of the Infidelity forum topics and I read your one about PEA.

Yes....I believe she has cut off contact with him. It has been 9 weeks tomorrow. But she still readily admits to having feelings. Typical that they started out just to catch up but her own unhappiness and his in his marriage led them to this path. She says the feelings have always been there but just got stirred up here. I have done my best detective work and she has blocked him on FB. All text, email, contact info is deleted. Not sure about work but still have that unsettled feeling. 3 weeks ago I did tell her that I would stop fixating on him. She says he is NOT the problem so I am trying to take her at her word. Started applying DB techniques and it will be 3 weeks for that on Thursday. I know it is still very early so I have time.

Problem is....this morning, I did look again in her work bag and found notes that she had scribbled with what looks like a bunch of random thoughts. Should probably not do that anymore as it sets my mind reeling but at least helps me understand where we are in some ways.

Here is some of the list that I remember:

- work out, focus on self
- go out with me and groups of folks togther
- work on our friendship whic is what I have been pushing with the idea we are starting over.
- mini vacation seperation opportunities....to beach, to sisters, for me to take some business trips
- girls night out
- fun with kids


But then she listed also her ex-boyfriends name. Just his first name. Not sure if it meant she wanted to go away or towards him. just his name on the list.

Then the tough one...saw a tag line that said Seperation = March 2011. We cannot financially afford to seperate so I am not sure what is happenening in March. I thought that perhaps we had been moving towards at least giving her room and space for her to not feel pressured....which I admit I did the first few weeks after bomb. I have offered her opportunites for us to spend time away from each other to decompress. Short time spans that would not affect the family. She still seems bent on some sort of longer term separation. When we originally had this talk over the weekend I did tell her that I would respect her decision and would let her go if she wanted. But told her the kids stay here. She got mad and asked me to not treat her like an unfit mother. I told her that she was a wonderful mother but to leave would be her decision. She also said she does not want a divorce but feels a seperation would be healthy. Perhaps but she cannot tell me why seperation would help her. Old BF is 1000 miles away so I do not see that happening unless there is some other plan. Maybe I am paranoid but still believe I need some more reassurances.

Anyway.....going to use the MC to try and get to bottom of this and see if EA and emotions are still there and what W can do if she wants to. Need to use MC to help get W true intentions. W is still sticking with story however (to me) that negative feelings and emotions towards me are what is holding her back. Has stated that she does not know how to drop these negative feelings and is worried they will last forever. If that is true then I can apply DB and work on self to promote better atmosphere for healing....plus trying to prepare for worst. However still have nagging feeling about EA and OM that needs to be addressed and dealt with on her part.

Will keep posted as things happen or as anyone asks questions. Trying to avoid R talk. We get along great in a lot of ways almost creepy....joking, talking, deep talks, going out on our "night of the week", going on family outings, to church, neck rubs for her, etc. You would think that everything is perfect since I started the DB and stepped back to give space/act as-if. Yet the absence of affection is striking because she was always a very loving and touchy person. Vulcan comes to minds and she has said she is trying to remove emotions from our situation so that she can deal with situation.

Thanks again!

DMB

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Did she ever send this OM a no-contact letter, asking that he leave her alone so that she can at least try to work on her marriage?

Puppy

[dazed1]

The pros here like Puppy will give you great advice.

One observation - she sure is playing loose with the evidence. I'm talking about the notes you keep finding. Hopefully if she is still in contact with the OM she keeps playing it loose like this...keep looking for intel. I would suspect it would be hard for W to go from 3,000 texts to zero that quickly/easily.

[sandi2]

.....and this is what I think is the LBH's script!

She never told me how unhappy she was and was ALWAYS over the top with love and affection towards me which I freely admit I probably got used to and took advantage of.

[doing my best]

Well....she did send him a message about leaving her alone. I know that and in fact when I discovered the depth of the contact I sent him a message too via FB. It was respectful but firm and I do know he sent a few more messages which she did not respond to.

Regarding the LBH script....you are so right. All I had to do was embrace and reflect....but I have my own issues that held back on affection. I am working through my own discovery on how to let go and live in the moment. With or without her I will need this.

Loose with the evidence....yes. But also at times contradicts what she is saying and how she is acting. Towards me. 3 Hour conversation with W last night based on more notes that I found. Will send an update when I get a chance. Had single MC appt today and will have our first joint session tomorrow. Have asked MC to help me get W to be honest with me.

Situation last night took a spiritual/soul/growth turn. Looking to map DB and WAW behaviors over this one. Think I have it but will share. The post will be good for those that have W's who are into soul and growth and deciding if R is provding it in that manner. Perhaps it is another metaphor for meeting emotional needs. Not sure. More later.

DMB

[doing my best]

So this is where we are.....conversations over the past 2 nights....

W says she has one foot out the door. Left the marriage in October 2009 and has already moved on. Says she is "committed to working on our relationship" but that means only going to counseling and offering herself to me for talks and conversations.

W says it is important for me to understand where she is and that she has a lot of hurt from our 18 years together. Sees nothing good from past relationship. Says she is looking for spiritual soul growth and believes we were put together for a reason but thinks that it is time to move on. No growth opportunities. Is glad to see me growing and changing but thinks it may be too late for us....however, not sure.

W says she is willing to work on a friendship with me but nothing more. Sees that we can remain friends no matter what happens but also says too much water under the bridge for anything else to happen.

Says she wants love but does not think I can provide it to her. I say that I could provide that love but have been holding back while I reassess my feelings. I say that I feel something such as caring love but need to make sure my other feelings of attraction to her are real and not based on fear of loss. I do love her but do not want to say yet. Although I do tell her I think I love her.

W says if we could afford separation then she would leave today. Not divorce but a chance to be on her own. Wants to stay in town and set up a structured sep like a divorce. Wants to have kids during week and not leave them. Says that she still has a lot of hurt and pain seeing me everyday when I walk in door even though no more angry outbursts and disrespectful comments. Feels scars of unemotional relationship with me and believes only solution is to not see me everyday. I have offered separation opportunities but not sure if that is good enough.

W says it is the little things that I am doing that make a difference but does not believe that I can truly change after 22 years. Believes that I am who I am with my inability to show/share emotions and feelings. I tell her that I would love to show and share now but do not want to smother her.

W has no emotional connection to me. Says she has dropped the resentment and hate but now feels nothing towards me and does not understand why any positive feelings have come in to replace the negative. Believes that she is emotionally spent and has nothing more to offer our R and M. Says she is not willing to gamble that I can find my soul and reconnect. Does not want to expend any energy on me but wants to use that energy towards working on herself. Says that I should continue working on myself....she continues working on her self....she will commit to working on R but needs me to understand that possibility for her to also leave in the end if she cannot get feelings back are very real.

For me....I try to agree with her as much as possible. I tell her that I will continue to work on self with or without her but would love it to be with her in "next relationship". She does say she is willing to stay as long as she sees some growth but that even then I need to understand that she could still decide to leave. She wants a partner that will challenge her and help her grow spiritually (not in Christian sense but overall soul sense....meta-physical)

She believes that our children will be OK because they will still have us and will see that we can work through problems even if we separate. Believes we will still be able to provide loving atmosphere separately. I tell her kids are better off with mom/dad as husband/wife. That we are not in a destructive or abusive R. That we should look for a way to work through this and still keep the family together. She is not so sure and pretty much disagrees.

I at least feel now that I have more of a framework to apply DB strategy. If she is to the point of wanting to work on our friendship and we cannot financially afford to separate....then I have time.

W keeps trying to emphasize point that she has already moved on....is already gone and I am just now catching up. She really believes that she DID give me signs in the past and tried to tell me she was unhappy but I did not see it. I do know that she never drew any line in the sand or actually said she was unhappy in marriage. She just herself decided to GAL and move on without me 7 months ago.

She is pretty determined to continue path out door. I thank her for giving me another chance and that working on our friendship is all that I can ask for now. I am glad we cannot afford a separation but I do tell her that if I could I would allow her to leave and accept her decision. She is happy that at least now "I get it".

So....is it too late? I believe that despite the devastating info and position we are in....that it has to be possible to turn this around if I can adapt the DB strategies....she is willing to work on friendship and do fun things with me and kids and not able to actually leave physically. Not sure though.

Any input?

DMB

[doing my best]

W also tells me that for me to meet any of her spiritual needs or emotional needs I should just live in the moment. Wants to see me do that. That is one of her issues with me over the years.

Another issue is that I have not shown or reflected the affection she craves over the years. So as I go through the DB I am torn between showing her affection and yet not making it look like I am pursuing.

I realize that I do need patience....more than ever before.


DMB

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Blah, blah, blah. In other words, she wants her cake, and eat it too.

This is all just classic infidelity SCRIPT. It is her feelings towards OM that are driving all of this drivel, DMB. The way I see it, you got two choices: aggressively move to bust the affair, or go "Robx/Gucci" on her.

She wants the security of your marriage, and you, but separated. AND the freedom to do as she pleases. In other words, she wants you as what we call around here "Plan B." I guess you need to decide if you're OK with that.

Sorry to be so harsh. I've seen THOUSANDS of these things now, and it's getting to where I'm just going to call them as I see them. They're really all the same.

Puppy