Just found out she already filed

[flowmom]

That's when I decided enough was enough and it was time to talk. So in a strict tone I told her "DD, that's no acceptable. You don't talk or behave that way with mommy or daddy. You use the words please and thank-you. Remember when you said you wanted to go camping with mommy and daddy said he'll take you? and you said no you want to go with mommy only? that's not nice either because that hurts daddy's feelings" - by now she's in tears and nodding her head. Then I told her that daddy loves her very much but she needs to be polite and nice. She wanted hugs so I picked her up and gave her lots of hugs and kisses. Then she was super nice and even helped me wash the car on her own. Cleaned her room etc. and was in a much happier mood after that.

Romeo, it's hard to know the vibe of the above exchange, but it concerns me a bit. Yes, expect polite. But be careful about asking a girl who's young and clearly very sensitive to be "nice". It's important that she feels safe to work through her conflicting feelings about dividing her time between two parents and losing her intact family. When she expresses those feeling indirectly, it's an opportunity for you to help her acknowledge those feelings. The pressure on her to be "nice" or not "hurt your feelings" could make it less safe for her to work through that stuff. Yes, she behaved well afterwards, but that could be interpreted in different ways (e.g. getting into people pleasing instead of being supported through a very difficult internal conflict that she was experiencing). I know you're a great dad, but this stuff is not easy.

Consider reading this book...I think it will really help you see things from her perspective:
http://www.amazon.ca/Helping-Your-Kids-Divorce-Sandcastles/dp/0679778012/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

(((hugs)))

[ImprovedRomeo]

Nikita, I checked in on your thread. I read a bit of par4me's sitch but I'll need to read more to see if I can contribute anything useful.

FM, thanks so much. I post here to get feedback if I did something wrong, I very much appreciate the 2x4s. I have read two books recently 'How to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk' and 'The complete single father'. What I remember from the latter book is 'you won't be a perfect parent, there's no such thing, you'll make mistakes the key is to learn from them'- I get it, it's kinda like life in general.

You're right this stuff is not easy and sometimes I don't know I'm handling a situation properly. 8 out of 10 times I validate her and be the adult. It's the other 2 times when I feel I need to put my parent hat on and tell her that her continued behavior is not acceptable. I know I've been more structured with her than her mom and I've been trying to do less of it. I'm also sensitive to her feelings; when she misses her mom I hold her and tell her that I know she misses mommy and that she'll see her in a day or two days and she can call mommy and talk to her but she always says no to calling her but will say she wants to see her. I tell her I know she does but it's daddy's day with her and mommy's probably out running errands etc too. Are these the right exact words to say? I don't know but from the first book it's about letting them know that you understand how they feel and then be direct about what you want them to do. This is where the 'you need to be nice and polite' comes from. She understands how she can be nice, like I said without me asking she wanted to help me wash the car and cleaned up her room etc. She also knows how not to be nice and that's when she'll act a bit bratty, not answer me, or be passive-aggressive...which is not like her but I think she learns it from her school from the other kids.

Anyway, I think the bottom line is I'd like to know if there's a better way of handling this situation. How would you suggest I handle it in the future?

[ImprovedRomeo]

Loved the movie 'Taken' - if you dads haven't seen it you should!

Way past my bedtime now. See you guys tomorrow- same place, same time OK?

[flowmom]

Romeo, it sounds like you're on the right track with your thinking on this. And I wasn't intending a 2x4, just expressing some concern. I was a sensitive girl so I know from my own experience that the weight of being expected to "understand" and "be nice" didn't leave much space for being allowed to have my feelings and express them. So that's where I'm coming from. But I know that you often express empathy and allow your D to have her feelings so I know that your D is in a very different situation than I was.

Just brainstorming here, but I guess my suggestion would be to tackle things one by one, e.g.

- not wanting to camp with you "so you really don't want to camp with me" -- active listen and let her express how much she doesn't want to camp with you. Then say something like "I love camping with you and I remember the fun we've had before. I'm the dad so I make the plans, but is there anything I can do to make it more fun for you?", then involve her as much as possible in menu planning, etc.

- wanting to camp with her mother - "you really want to camp with your mother" -- again active listen. Then help her to find a way to express that. If she is declining phone calls, perhaps try other things like "let's write a letter to mom to tell her how much you'd like to go camping with her...you can draw a picture of you and mom in the tent".

Again, I'm not saying you did it wrong and the above are just ideas.

That's awesome that you read "how to talk...", it's a classic. The coparenting book that I am recommending is really great too and really does help navigate the tricky part of providing emotional support to our children.

[kat727]

I was a child that was always trying to keep the peace. Up until the divorce, I had the hardest time telling my dad that he had hurt my feelings and while I appreciated his concern I really, did not need to hear him put me down. (He actually said that since I had the kids, I let myself go, I wasn't hot any more and that may have contributed to my ex leaving.)

So try not to have her become a peace maker. She needs to feel comfortable with both of you and to be able to express herself with both of you.

kat

[whatisis]

Loved the movie 'Taken' - if you dads haven't seen it you should!

Way past my bedtime now. See you guys tomorrow- same place, same time OK?

I enjoyed that movie too, Romeo. It's the old fantasy where Dad takes control of a situation that would seemingly be out of control for most of us. He kicks ass and gets his kids back. Personally, I've often had dreams of not being able to find my girls, it's terrifying so I think this movie fits into those kind of dreams I'm sure most of us have from time to time. It goes right to our greatest fear. Now, the reality of the movie is total horse poo because human traffickers do not sit around airports looking to pick off good looking young strays! It is a billion dollar industry that takes advantage of young women from poor parts of the world by offering them office jobs etc in a foreign country but then brutally force them ointo prostitution. 2-4 million children and young women will be trafficked into prostitution this year worldwide. In Cambodia alone, the sex tourism hot spot for pervs looking for young children, 2,000 girls a month are sold or tricked into brothels. It's an incredibly horrible situation. If you or anyone else is interested there are a number of organizations working to free women worldwide from this horror. Go to IJM.com or Somaly.org., I donate to both these organizations. Sorry to take up so much of your thread here Romeo but it's a subject I'm passionate about. If Taken actually brings some awareness to the sitch worldwide then I'm glad. And a good book to read is The Natashas by Victor Malarek, I bought copies for all my friends. Sermon over!
Btw, here's hoping that we're talking about the same movie!

[whatisis]

I gave a wrong web address for one of the above organizations. Try ijm.org., in Canada ijm.ca. Thanks.

[ImprovedRomeo]

FM, thanks for the suggestions. You know I value your advice so thanks for taking the time to give me some tools for next time.

Active listening: I couldn't remember what it was called but yes I do that I need to change my tone though. I usually say it as if a bit surprised: "Really? you want to do x?" as opposed to "so you really want to do x?". So I'll remember this next time.

"I love camping with you and I remember the fun we've had before. I'm the dad so I make the plans, but is there anything I can do to make it more fun for you?"

I can just picture her saying just a quick "NO!" - it's her way of saying she doesn't want to talk and it doesn't matter what you say I'm not listening right now. The only thing that works is to completely ignore it and in a few mins she's OK or use my strict tone but then she cries so I don't usually.

kat, you know I'm slow hence the name so when you say don't let her be a peace maker what exactly do you mean so I can watch for it?

wii, wow, didn't know you were so passionate about that. That's so awesome...being a girl's dad will do that to you. Yeah I liked Taken and also 'law abiding citizen'- though a bit gruesome. Anyway, yeah a lot of it is horse poo...you can't go around blowing sh*t up in other countries I don't care how trained or good you are. You can't take on 15 guys with weapons and disarm and knock them to the ground no matter what you ate for breakfast. However, to me it's a bit of a fantasy to be a super dad, a super husband who always comes through and can kick some behind.

Which reminds me I should look into krav-maga or akido- my problem is I want the end result but not the long time to get there lol

[kat727]

I mean that you need to encourage her to say what she wants in a respectful way of course. Even if it isn't what you want to hear. If my Mom and Dad were fighting, I would always try to some how lighten the situation, usually "working" on my Dad. I never tried to shake the boat if possible. I was always Miss Goody Two Shoes. I was always trying to live up to an image that I "believed" they wanted.

I was very strict on myself as a child. In fact I was never so much a child as a mini adult. I am still dealing with that now. I go over board letting my kids be kids and make mistakes like all kids do. I am no where near as strict as my Dad(I hear about that quite often, but I haven't changed the way I do things.) If I am upset with my Dad I may not be able to say something right then but I usually can a bit later after I have calmed down.

I hope that helps you. kat

[newmama]

So about the conversation with your daughter...absolutely smart to be at least learning how to talk to your daughter (I will need to do the same for my son) because this stuff isn't easy as FM put it.

I also think it's important to figure out why she didn't like going camping with you--because chances are she DOES but there is ONE THING she doesn't like (you know how kids are!). So it would be good to be able to pinpoint that and then teach her how to let you know. Instead of saying "I don't like camping with daddy" (which IS rude to say, btw! even if she is an innocent beautiful 6 year old with divorced parents!)"Say something you do like and something you don't like. "I like roasting marshmallows and singing songs with you Daddy! But I don't like hiking."

Ok am not going to stay on this any longer! We can always go back (my friend C does) and revisit topics with our kids if we don't like how we handled it the first time, you know? DO OVERS ARE ALLOWED in life!