Another story of a WH and an LBS

[gatsby11]

Other thread got locked. (WH regrets? it was titled) Continuing as before. It's a journal, basically.

WH came over to see the baby. I cooked. Fortunately I did it 70% for myself and 30% for him. Next time, I'll only do it for myself 100%. (Not portion size, but motivation.)

He told me about his yoga class when he came in, about how it was a monumental time for him. The yogi talked about pain and suffering and gave a pose with the heart pushed towards the sky. That pose meant healing for the heart. And WH said that was exactly what he needed during this difficult time for him, in his pain and suffering.

Okay, now it's my thoughts. What pain and suffering? The pain he has for leaving me and ending our wonderful relationship? This WH doesn't say he wants to be away from me. He wants to be near me and with me. But only as friends. So it's awful since we just had a child together. And that gives him so much pain.

Now it's my vent. He's only thinking about himself, still. No thought of my pain, no thought of what my reaction might be to his commentary on his suffering, etc. I can't act 'as if' when he wants me to be his sounding-board on his breakup. As if-- "as if"-- I'm not the person he's breaking up with!

Now it's back to action. So I started crying. I hid it well, but then he found me in the bedroom. He was awkward for a while. Then he said, "I wish this all hadn't happened." I said, "So do I." Then I said, "What do you mean by 'pain and suffering'?" (Is it possible he meant something different?) He said, "Well... my life." I said, "Then why did you tell me about it?" And he said, "I don't know." He was about to say that he wouldn't, but he stopped himself.

Then there was awkward silence for 30 seconds or so. And then he said that he was leaving and I said okay.

I don't think I can do this 'as if.' And I'm not saying that for encouragement to keep going. I mean it. He is not thinking about my feelings with this arrangement: seeing me often, loving me, texting me, narrating his life and suffering for me, and STILL wanting to "just be friends."

Not sure about this, but I'm thinking of either rescheduling his Wednesday visit (for some undetermined time) or having my mom be here when he arrives.

So it was a rather down night.

[gatsby11]

My email to WH:

Hi,

I feel that something needs to be said for communication's sake. This is my take on it.

Me: I want us to try to work on a relationship at some point in the future. No rush, no instant living together, nothing like that. But a chance at relationship restoration.

You: You want us to be friends only. You want to drop in on the baby and me at times to hang out. You also want me to support you in the pain of. . . our split? (I'm guessing that's what you meant by 'my life' yesterday.)

Nothing much has changed since January. You're saying the same thing, and so am I. I won't be friends with you. We're either civilly co-parenting the baby or trying to make "us" work. And to me, civil co-parenting does not involve friendship.

So, to further the co-parenting idea, I want to make sure this is all very clear.

Visitation times:

Sunday 2-6
Tuesday 8-9:30ish (whenever I return, I guess)
Thursday 8-9:30ish

No discussion about topics other than the baby and logistics, unless you want to address the contents of this email.

To me, breaking up with me and then wanting me to listen to your pain about the break-up is not considering my feelings at all. (Especially because I'm the one who was cheated on, who carried the baby, and who now primarily raises her.) It is also a little frustrating to hear you use words that imply that this just happened, not that you made decisions that led to this point.

You know I love you, and I know you love me. I hope that we can use that to work this out.

See you on Thursday. (My mom may be there, I'm not changing her day.)



All right. Let me know if you think I should make changes, guys.

[Piano]

G, okay, to respond to your first post, I think WH is in crisis, is in pain, is being selfish - all of those things all at once. He is, well, lost.
I'm not a fan of the email. Boundary-setting is great, but me thinks you need to find language that is less "controlling" (less telling him how it is) and avoid talking about "working" on the M with your H. I reckon he's not in the mood for 'work' - he wants escape. So maybe avoid that language (even though of course it's what you want!). I am also thinking that since you two DO get along (can listen to music together, watch TV), that you don't need to do the "we can't be friends" speech, especially in writing (so final, ya know?). If he's boring the pants off you with his behaviour, then just don't give him so much of your time...a la Robx.
However, for your own well-being,it's good to set boundaries..Hmm, this is a tough one... Would it work to send a very simple email only about visitation? Such as:

Hi,
I'm finding it hard at the moment to get into the appropriate 'head space' that I need to be in order to parent effectively, so I'm thinking we need to set down a visitation schedule. I was thinking something like this:
Sunday 2-6
Tuesday 8-9:30ish (whenever I return, I guess)
Thursday 8-9:30ish

Would that work for you?
Thanks, see you Thursday ( by the way my mum may be here).
Gatsby.

So, don't tell him you love him (he knows, right?), dont remind him what he's done to you (he already knows this too& I think forcing him to talk about the M right now will drive him into his bunker.), and then, when he comes over, just don't look too interested when he discusses stuff other than the baby unless you feel like it.
That's my take. But Newmama is the ultimate diplomatic emailer if you want another take!

[newmama]

Gatsby, I am so sorry to hear about the way your H is acting so immature and selfish!

[quote]Hi,

I feel that something needs to be said for communication's sake. This is my take on it.

Me: I want us to try to work on a relationship at some point in the future. No rush, no instant living together, nothing like that. But a chance at relationship restoration.

You: You said that you want us to be friends only. It seems like you want to drop in on the baby and me at times to hang out.

Nothing much has changed since January. You're saying the same thing, and so am I. I won't be friends with you. We're either civilly co-parenting the baby or trying to make "us" work. And to me, civil co-parenting does not involve friendship.

So, to further the co-parenting idea, I want to make sure this is all very clear. These visitation times would work for me. Are they fine with you?
Visitation times:

Sunday 2-6
Tuesday 8-9:30ish
Thursday 8-9:30ish


You know I love you, and I know you love me. I hope that we can use that to work this out.

See you on Thursday. (My mom may be there, just to let you know.)[/quote]

What about this? I agree that it shouldn't sound too controlling, and not so much talk about him being selfish and working on your M BUT you are allowed to establish boundaries. And I am thinking that communicating a little about the status of the relationship every now and then is actually helpful for you.

In my case, I NEVER inquired or brought it up....well it would have let me know that he was moving in with her in my town, that he was filing for D...you know? Also, I could have been able to see "what was working" with my strategies by checking the temp every couple months or so...without even pressuring him for an answer!

Hope this isn't too confusing. And I started typing this post 2 hours ago but got interrupted.

[gatsby11]

Hey guys,

thanks for your replies. BUT... (I feel so dumb)

I didn't have enough time to send it out yesterday 'cause my mom was over and I also went out and saw Eclipse.

When my mom was watching little girl sleep, I went on a walk. It was really nice, I was enjoying the sun and all the people on the trail.

Then WH called. And asked if he could come over. I tried to be polite but guarded. But I can't say no to him wanting to see little girl. Plus, I thought he might want to talk to me. So I said ok.

My mom was there and he came over. I did busy myself-- checked mail, got a massage in the apt community center, vacuumed the bedroom, etc, but I was 'there.' It's really really hard to keep to what I said in the email above. Which you guys edited out. About keeping the convo strictly about the baby. He asked me how Eclipse was, and I said it was fine. He asked how my day was, and I was similarly vague. I didn't ask him back. That's the best I could do.

I got the feeling that he came over to make sure I was 'okay.' I guess meaning that I wasn't crying, because we didn't talk! And when he left I think he felt sort of reassured. . . I don't know what to think of that.

I could have brought up the contents of the email above. But I didn't. So... I'm not even sure what to do with it now. It's like the opportunity passed. I don't know. I'll try to think about it.

[Piano]

Hey, don't feel dumb! So many times the moment passed for me. It may come in handy later. For the record I think Newmama's edit is the way to go.
As for the last interraction there, it was ok, wasn't it? When it comes to seeing the baby, I think it's fine to put aside the visitation schedule (in your head) and say OK to him coming over and seeing the baby if you feel OK about it. It's a good thing for their relationship (bub and dad). Just don't do it at your expense or if it's going to detract you from doing your job as the primary caregiver, I reckon.
Anyway, you did a good job of keeping busy as you say, and vague responses to his questions seem appropriate to me.

Maybe think about where you want to be with WH in say, a months time, and aim for that.
Hope that helps...

[newmama]

Gatsby, I think you did a perfect job of the day...-emotionally, too-yes, you will be "there" when he is visiting, despite running around. This is the hardest thing we will ever do in our life, and the most important for our babies (if the dad wants to be involved and we can maximize that).

more tomorrow- just wanted to check in!! xxxooo!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Gatsby,

I don't think you totally missed the opportunity, and like the edits that Newmama made to the e-mail. I'd suggest sending, today:

"Thanks for your concern about me last nite, but I'm realizing that I'll be just fine. I do feel that something needs to be said for communication's sake. This is my take on it..." etc.

I think it's important to get these things out there. You need some firmer boundaries in place, if nothing else than for your own emotional health.

Puppy

[gatsby11]

Hello all, and hi Puppy. I've seen your name around and know that you are a vet; thanks for dropping by!

So I did a bit more editing, and this is what I just sent out:

Hi,

Thanks for coming over last night. I think that maybe you wanted to make sure that I was ‘okay’ after Monday night; if so, thanks. I feel that something needs to be said for communication's sake. So, this is how I see things:

Me: I want us to try to work on a relationship at some point in the future. No rush, no instant living together, nothing like that. But a chance at relationship restoration.

You: You said that you want us to be friends only. It seems like you want to drop in on Daughter and me at times to hang out and share/ talk about some things.

As I think you can tell, this arrangement isn’t the easiest for me. Nothing much has changed since January. You're saying the same thing, and so am I. I won't be friends with you like I think you want to be—divorced, but friends like when we were married. To me, we're either civilly co-parenting Daughter or trying to make "us" work. And to me, civil co-parenting does not involve friendship. It’s tricky, figuring the difference between civility and friendship for us. But I'm trying to figure it out.

So, to further the co-parenting idea, the schedule. I know we’ve talked about this in person, but I wanted to get it in writing.

Visitation times:

Sunday 2-6
Tuesday 8-9:30ish
Thursday 8-9:30ish

I hope to join a workout class on Tues/Thurs that will cover those times, but we’ll see if I can make that happen!

Like yesterday, I’m open to calling if you want to drop by, so that works, too.

See you on Thursday.

M

Ps-- This email is peppered with “I think”s, I know. It’s just that we haven’t talked fully openly, so I do just ‘think’ things!


I know that I'm not asking for a final revision, but I think it's pretty close to what was said here! Wordier, though. :p

Thanks for your help, guys. And Puppy, thanks for pushing me to send it. I was going to let it go, but it is something that probably needs to be said.

[gatsby11]

Well, didn't expect a reply. Got one, though.

"I would like to talk about this in person. But about the schedule, it looks good. In fact, I can come earlier on Tuesdays and Thursdays to better facilitate your workout. I could be at your place by 6:30, depending on your workout schedule. Sunday looks fine and I'm not opposed to staying longer. But this Sunday I won't be there because I'm moving. I'll see you tonight. I can be there by 6:30."

1-- We did talk about this in person! And then, on Monday night, HE left! I'm not mad, but he always makes it seem like I don't talk...

2-- I'm going to tell him to come later because I don't know what I'll be doing at 6:30.

I might also say that if he wants to come before 8, we can go out and 'talk' for a little bit while mom is inside with the baby.

Not sure if I'll say that last part, though. I kinda want him to bring up the convo on his own!